Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 2nd, 2008

[Chelsea Jukes]

That is so for the most part. One of the issues was that when they got their permanent residency, we experienced a kind of turnover at that stage. We lost a fair number of drivers once they had it, so what we've said is that we need to get better at our hiring process to determine.... If we lose them to the industry, that's fine. If they get their permanent residency and they go to another carrier, we understand the whole “all we know is Westcan, and the grass is greener on the other side”. We get that. But if we lose them because they are a truck driver and then tomorrow they're a baker, we've done something wrong.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, we have to go to Ed now, because we're—

[Chelsea Jukes]

I'm sorry. Did that answer your question?

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Yes, that's fine, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

—we're trying to stay on schedule for a 12 o'clock luncheon with the—

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'll give the rest of my time to Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'll be very quick. I have just a couple of questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have about two and a half minutes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

All right.

I appreciate hearing from you. That was a good presentation. I hear you when you say that there needs to be some standardization of process and a clear pathway. When you look at all the various options and all the things you might do, even a qualified, competent person has to scratch their head sometimes in terms of which way to go. So we need to simplify and even streamline the process.

I've heard from a number of people, and they've said that when you do bring somebody down, a temporary foreign worker or labourer, and there is a spouse involved, we need to be sure that there is an opportunity for them to work. We hear you loud and clear on that.

The other issue we've heard is that many of the temporary foreign workers are somewhat vulnerable, and what can we do to protect them? I'll leave that area, but I'd like a comment from Chris or Daniel on that.

To Chelsea, the provincial nominee program is something that I'm convinced the provinces can use to a great degree to bring in temporary workers, and then we need to patch them into permanent residents, along with their spouses, if we can. I know that in Saskatchewan, if you're in six months, you can apply for the provincial nominee program and off you go. Maybe they could broaden or widen their process.

Did you find, in dealing with the various provincial governments, a harmonization in that provincial nominee program, or have you detected some differences? And could there be some improvement in that area as well?

I know I haven't got much time, but perhaps you can go ahead first, Chelsea, and answer that question.

[Chelsea Jukes]

Do you mean harmonization in the PN programs between the provinces?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Between the provinces, yes.

[Chelsea Jukes]

There are variances. Manitoba was kind of a leader in the west for the PN program. We've modelled some things that have worked well for them--in Saskatchewan, from what I understand, and in Alberta. B.C. is new for us. We're at a NOC C level, so it's all pilot projects, whereas in Alberta and Saskatchewan they've now made it part of their PN program, just within this past spring.

So there are differences and variances, but we've been able to navigate the system and haven't been impeded too much.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I think it's a great program, and the provinces need to get on board if they really want to address the situation they're facing.

Perhaps I can get a couple of comments on the vulnerable side of temporary foreign workers and how to help protect them.

[Daniel Hirschkorn]

The irony is that one of the protections temporary foreign workers have is the ability to switch jobs. We've talked about that. I mean, you do get a lot of people coming in where, if one person leaves for a better-paying job, they all leave. It's not easy--you need a positive LMO and you need to reapply to CIC--but it can be done.

In terms of the workers, there needs to be a mechanism in place so that Service Canada is aware that the workers are aware of their rights. It could be an orientation overseas, it could be a booklet. I know that Service Canada, when they issue a positive labour market opinion, give you a little discussion on the front. It's really bloody complicated, and I read English fairly well. That goes to the foreign worker. So you know what? They're not going to spend their time reading it.

Perhaps some literature could be attached to the labour market opinion--

[Chris Thomas]

In simple language.

[Daniel Hirschkorn]

Yes, something simple; it doesn't have to be cost-prohibitive.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Fair enough. And there are probably other ways we can address how that may be managed.

You talked about the cost invested in bringing people over and then having them just leave without any consequences. I hear you on that. Perhaps we need to get a little more sophisticated on that end to ensure that the incoming or receiving employer is somehow obligated to offset some of the costs in an equitable manner.

[Daniel Hirschkorn]

Yes. That's a tricky one, depending on the skill category as well.

[Chris Thomas]

Oh, it's not that tricky, trust me.

[Chelsea Jukes]

One other thing I'd just like you guys to ponder in your committee is the sharing of information. I know that there are privacy issues, but if companies agreed to release their information--that they're a member, or that they have positive LMOs--as a private industry, we wouldn't necessarily need to rely on government. If I'm bringing a driver in and I know his wife's skill set is this, and I have access to who's involved in the temporary foreign worker program or the PN program, and a list of employers, then we can kind of cross--

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Chelsea Jukes]

Tim Hortons? I have lots of spouses.

[A voice]

There you go, right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Sandra, I hope we didn't ignore you, did we?

[Sandra Cornford]

No, no.