Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 12th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The chair would like to say a few words.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Go ahead. I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

It's not a point of order, but I ask that all members act as honourable ladies and gentlemen and try not to bait each other.

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm wondering, with this motion now, and especially the motion that we completely stop all deportations, how it is that we will then address individuals who may have committed unbearable atrocities back home? How do I go back to my Tamil community and say to them that it doesn't matter what you may have done back home, Canada is going to protect either side in this conflict?

We don't know when there will be a safe environment. This is a conflict that has been going on for 60 years. Are we going to allow another 60 years' worth of zero deportations to that area? Are we going to drop any pretence that we are going to look at individuals who may be in this country who are actually responsible for acts of terrorism? Are we going to overlook anybody who has committed an atrocity back home? How are we going to address people who are in the conflict zone? How are we going to get them to Colombo so that we can actually bring them back to Canada? These are the issues.

I understand what the member opposite is trying to do in this, but I think the motion itself lacks the comprehensive nature that we as a committee need to truly understand what is happening in the conflict zone and how we can actually make a proper impact. It would be very easy to say, “Just have a moratorium. Forget about it.” I certainly am not looking forward to going back into my community and telling people who have come to me in my riding office and suggested that there are individuals who are living in this country now who shouldn't be here, whom they are frightened of, who need to go back to their homeland.... I now have to go back and tell them that a committee of Parliament has decided that it doesn't matter what happened, they're going to be staying here.

I think we really need to take a look at this motion. We need to take a look at what it is we want to accomplish with this motion, and we have to do a lot more work than what we can do in the context of 10 minutes in front of a committee with a motion that has been amended a number of times already, Mr. Chair.

Again, I think it's something we should take off the table for now and research properly to see if we can't come back with something that would be more appropriate and that would truly help the people we're trying to protect here.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Are you making a motion to refer?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

No, I'm finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Karygiannis and then Ms. Wong.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Chair, I'd like to move the motion and I would like to ask for a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We have Ms. Wong on the list and I'm going to let her speak first.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I moved it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I know, and I'm going to say Ms. Wong can speak.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I called the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Wong.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Chair, I called the question.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

It's not debatable. It's in order.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I already did it twice and you accepted it. Therefore I'm calling the question, calling the motion; I'm calling for a recorded vote.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The difference with before was that I did not have a list and I now have a list.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sir, you also had a list--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm ruling that Ms. Wong has the floor. If you want to challenge me, go ahead. We'll have a vote.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'd like to challenge the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I am prepared to vote on the Chair's ruling, but I would still like to see the relevant passage in the Standing Orders to understand what exactly I'm voting on.

Quite frankly, it seems to me that...

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The chair has been challenged. We have a member who has asked for some clarification on that issue, if the clerk can find it. Mr. St-Cyr has asked a question on the chair being challenged. I think that's a fair question before we vote on that.

We are suspending for a few moments.

Could I have order, please. We will reconvene.

I have been drawn to page 456 in the book, with respect to the chair being challenged on the motion. The issue of why the chair ruled the way he did was not to curtail debate. The quote is, “The previous question cannot be moved in a Committee of the Whole nor in any committee of the House.” That's what the book says, Mr. St-Cyr, but the chair has been challenged--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Could you read that again, please?