Evidence of meeting #28 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was csic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Chair, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
There would have been expenses in those first two years as well.
4:50 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
Those would be detailed in the annual report, Mr. Trudeau.
4:50 p.m.
Chair, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
I can for the first year because this fiscal year isn't over until the end of this month and we'll have to undergo our external audit before that. In the first year, we had expenses in the amount of about $200,000.
4:50 p.m.
Chair, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
That was for the set-up of the fund relating to professional fees for drawing up bylaws, policies, and things of that nature, and also for rent, staff, etc.
4:50 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
Largely, rolling out policies for the fund. This was obviously not something you can just flip on. Quite frankly, it's a developmental process, Mr. Trudeau. We have one employee working in IMMFUND.
To get to your earlier question, the funds are segregated. The issue at hand, though, is that we have no way of controlling when those criminal actions will come to conclusion. So clearly if any wind-up--
4:50 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
For any wind-up of the corporation--if I could just cut to the chase for you to help you--obviously the parent corporation would have to keep funds there for a period of time until such time as those cases had wound their way through the courts, so the funds would be available to pay out any claims. Then the moneys would be used to dissolve a corporation, pay rents, leaseholds, and whatever the corporation--
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
CSIC, the parent corporation. It would repatriate into the parent corporation. But not until such time--
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Sorry, Mr. Ryan, but I'm limited in my time. I'm just trying to understand.
You've collected these fees to protect both: the consumers and the immigration consultants who are members of CSIC. But you're saying that if CSIC were to disappear, you wouldn't choose to put these fees in trust for these five pending cases, but you would hold them aside. It seems to me that there's a little disconnect there, because if CSIC is indeed wrapped up as of January of next year, those court cases may not be decided for another few years.
That $1.2 million would have to be held in trust somewhere. When those court cases end up going through or not going through, whatever, CSIC wouldn't exist anymore, so it should be returned to members who paid into it. No?
4:50 p.m.
Chair, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
Not by law. You can't return it to members on a not-for-profit.
4:50 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
CSIC wouldn't wind down until such time as the court cases have wound their way through. There would be a process whereby moneys would have to be kept in trust. I don't want to speak on behalf of the board of directors who may be in position at that time, but the reality of the situation is that when a non-profit organization runs out, it's not automatic that the money goes back to the members--at least, so our legal advice says.
I understand the issue you're concerned about from a public protection point of view. I will tell you quite frankly as a CEO of CSIC that absolutely the moneys will be held in trust, to ensure that the consumers who have been negatively affected by the members of CSIC are protected, just as our errors and omissions insurance policy would have to be in place until such time as those items and those issues would be finalized.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Let's suppose CSIC was replaced. Well, it would be replaced by a different regulator, which I assume would have to have a similar fund like this because it was a requirement. Would the fund, the $1.2 million, whatever is not used by these court cases, therefore not be able to be transferred to the new immigration consultant regulator?
4:55 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
Not unless there was a process of negotiation between the new regulator and the old regulator. The funds would be there for claims up to the point where CSIC stopped being the regulator. So if there were a claim or an infraction or criminal conviction that originated in the time that CSIC was a regulator, then the fund would survive until such time as those claims had gone through the process.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
If I understood correctly, you are not able to tell the committee how much money is left from the $1.2 million that was collected.
4:55 p.m.
Member, Board of Directors, IMMFUND-IMMFONDS Inc.
We are: exactly $1.2 million is in the fund.
Again, we're talking about the last annual audited statements, which were issued in February of this year. Our current fiscal year is coming to an end on October 31 of this year and our audited statements will not be publicly available until February 2011.
