Evidence of meeting #73 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was individuals.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Well, if it's ongoing investigations, they've probably concluded their answers. I don't think we're going to get any more out of them in camera than we will here.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Okay.
Can I ask this question? In your statement, you broadly mentioned that activities range from fundraising and logistical support to terrorist training and operations.
Referencing back to the Toronto 18, when we think of terrorist cells or terrorist groups, we never think of it happening on our own soil. We don't think of activities such as terrorist training happening here in Canada. It was in Ontario. It was in an urban area.
Now, can you tell me, of the individuals that the ongoing investigations are for, is there any terrorist training, or camps, or those types of cells happening here in Canada? Can you tell me that answer?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I prefer not to comment on that.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
So you have an answer, but you're unable to comment on it. I think I can take that one way or another.
Is there more of a problem in one area of the country than the other? Can I ask that question?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I think I can say that there are investigations in regard to threats to national security across Canada.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
In one of your answers, you said that one of the biggest issues or concerns is that youth are being radicalized here in Canada. I think that was your comment, Mr. Peirce.
From media reports and things that we've heard in the news, and things that we've seen on TV, it seems to be a trend that this occurs with young people who have immigrated to Canada at a young age.
Would you agree with that statement?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
No, I think there's a range of factors around radicalization. I think the minister pointed out the fact that we've had individuals with post-secondary education who have been radicalized.
There isn't a single footprint for radicalization, and particularly for radicalization that may lead to extremist activity in support of violence.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
I know you said there isn't a single footprint, but there must be a trend. It's not just random. There has to be something that connects these people who are being radicalized here in Canada to be involved in this in the first place. I think about people I know, and I can't imagine any of those people....
There has to be some sort of a trend. It may not be a single footprint—it may be a group of footprints—but there has to be a trend.
Could you speak to that for a moment?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I'd be inclined to answer it from the opposite direction. We're not seeing a lot of CEOs being radicalized—
10:40 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
—so there are some areas where you don't see it.
But beyond that, the possibilities are relatively wide.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
It's funny that you said CEOs, because actually, in my first hour of questions to the minister, I asked about people who have integrated into Canada economically and socially, who have accepted Canada as their home nation, who have allegiance to this country.
You mentioned that CEOs are not typically the ones to be involved in this. Do you think, in terms of the question I asked the minister earlier with regard to integration in Canada, that has a play in this?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Well, I think his answer spoke to the fact that if they're engaging in threats to national security, ultimately, at that stage, they are not well integrated into Canada.
As to what their status may have been earlier, and whether they were at one time well integrated, they may well have been, and we do see that.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
Going back to the Toronto 18 group, we know that some of them received training here in Ontario within the GTA structure.
Can you tell me—whether you're able to or not—if any of those people involved in the Toronto 18 actually received any training overseas?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I can't speak specifically to the Toronto 18. That predated my time with CSIS.
But we certainly do have instances; Mr. Khawaja, I believe, received training overseas, came back to Canada, and was involved in a threat related to the U.K.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I guess I only have a minute left, so let me just ask this.
Post-9/11, a lot of countries beefed up their security, presumably making it harder for groups and individuals to travel, to communicate, to organize, to fundraise, and that kind of thing. Yet it seems to me and to a lot of people out there that they're always a few steps ahead of us.
Is it that they have adapted? Or in what ways have they adapted to give them that step ahead of us all the time?
10:40 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I would start by saying—and then I'll turn it over—that it only appears that in many respects they're a step ahead of us, because those are the ones we haven't caught, dealt with, or apprehended in some way. That doesn't account for the many people who have been identified, some of whom have been prosecuted. When you look at the whole picture, I'm not sure they're a step ahead of us.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you very much. Thank you for appearing before us.
I see the clock, but my BlackBerry says 10:45—
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Well, I was going to give you another minute, but do you want to stop?
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
If I have another minute, that would be wonderful.
I want to touch a little bit on whether there are specific regions in the country where you see increased activity, radicalization, or training. I know you can't talk about specific groups or things, but do you see it in urban areas as opposed to rural areas? Do you see it in certain parts of the country or in certain provinces where it's more prevalent that they're gathering and organizing?
10:45 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I would repeat my earlier answer, which is that we do see threats to the security of Canada across Canada and in each of the regions of Canada and—
10:45 a.m.
Assistant Director Intelligence, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Everywhere.