Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 24th, 2023

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I don't need as much time, because all the witnesses will eventually have answered my questions in writing.

As my friend Mr. El‑Khoury pointed out, the former minister, Mr. Fraser, came here on June 14. He explained that legitimate students who intended to submit a permanent resident application could be exempted on humanitarian grounds with a view to overturning an inadmissibility determination for misrepresentation.

Obtaining such an exemption is certainly not easy. It may take quite a while and accordingly, cost people a lot of money. Do you expect exemptions of this kind to be awarded quickly when the time comes to do so?

[Michèle Kingsley]

Yes, absolutely. Case reviews proceed very quickly. In the event that a student has not yet received a decision from the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, we put a note on their file in the Global Case Management System, the GCMS. If a student applies for permanent residence status, the officer processing that student's application will see the note on file. The agent will see that it's a student who was reviewed by the task force and considered to be a genuine student, meaning that humanitarian grounds can be confirmed.

Notes are entered directly into the system. No matter where students may have ended up in their travels, the officer processing the case will see them. Some students may not want permanent resident status initially, but if they wish to have it later, the note will already be on their file. As soon as we have issued a temporary resident permit, we leave the note in the GCMS.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. McCrorie, do you have something to add? No, you don't.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Ms. Kingsley, I don't think you had finished speaking.

[Michèle Kingsley]

The note is left in the system. If the student applies for permanent residence, the note will be very obvious and the officer will see it right away.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I agree that it would be automatic, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you have a minute to go.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

—to have this note placed on file, the student must have submitted an application. That's what I want to say, in fact. To have this note, it takes time and money. Are you with me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Kingsley, give a short answer, please.

[Michèle Kingsley]

Well, the task force reviews all cases. When a person is here on a temporary basis, we immediately award a temporary resident permit immediately after having determined that the person is a genuine student, and the note corroborating our decision is left on file. So if the person, afterwards, decides to apply for permanent residence, the note will already be there.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Madam Kwan for up to three minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Some of those students whom the task force has found to be genuine have already applied to the federal court for judicial review of the exclusion order. They believed at the time that they should not withdraw from that process, so they're continuing that process. Now that the task force has found them to be genuine, they're asking if they should withdraw from the investigation and that process or still carry through with that process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Kingsley.

[Michèle Kingsley]

Those are very individual questions that students should be discussing with their counsel. It's not up to IRCC or CBSA to be giving legal advice. The work of the task force is to determine whether there was genuineness in terms of the study-permit process. We are intervening and issuing the TRPs when we do believe they were genuine. However, the court proceedings are separate, and individuals have to make their own decisions on whether they want to pursue or not.

In terms of the temporary status or the permanent resident status, if someone was deemed to be genuine, the notes are in the system, and we will be able to consider them when necessary if those people apply for permanent residency.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Kwan, you have the floor.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, I would say there's a disconnect. You have a duplicate process going on, and you have the task force assessing an individual's file to say that they're genuine students. They were having to go through the Federal Court for judicial review only because they were found to have allegedly defrauded the system. If the task force has already established that they're genuine, why, then, do they still have to go through a separate process?

What I'm hearing from the officials is, “Yes, it's up to you. You need to decide if you're going through the process. It's not up to us to decide.”

No wonder there's confusion. How are people supposed to know? You've already gone through the process, found to be genuine, and then they have to have no communication from the officials about what that means. Then, in the meantime, they go through a court process. No wonder people are worried. Even the ones who are found to be genuine are worried.

Meanwhile, their passport has been taken from them, as though somehow they're still defrauding the system.

Good grief, what is going on? I'm sorry to say that this is as clear as mud, and we're not that much further ahead with so many of the students.

I get it that officials can't give legal advice, nor can their offices give legal advice, but how are people supposed to figure out what all this means? I don't get it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Kwan, your time is up, but I'll give you 30 seconds, Madam Kingsley, to respond.

[Michèle Kingsley]

I would say that the immigration process is very separate from individual decisions to pursue something in court or not. We can only speak to the immigration side.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Now we will be going to my dear friend Mr. McLean for up to three minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Welcome, officials, and thank you for being here today.

My first question is about the number of applicants under this program. It was 122,000 students applying in 2000, the turn of the century. We were up to 638,000 in 2019. Since then, it has skyrocketed after COVID to over 900,000 applicants who come into this program per year.

Are you confident, first of all, that you are able to examine and commit the resources to ensuring that all these are legitimate foreign students coming here? By the way, it's clearly a growth business, so there will be all kinds of bad actors around something that's getting this much attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Kingsley, you have the floor.

[Michèle Kingsley]

On the exponential growth in this program, there's no question that it just keeps growing and growing. As the minister noted, there is no cap on the temporary resident pathways. It is something that we're very cognizant of and concerned about. It's creating, in some communities, some issues with regard to absorptive capacity. It is leading to student vulnerability. It is leading to integrity issues as well.

I don't think any individual institution, organization or level of government can really address all of the challenges that come with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mr. McLean.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

You talked about the integrity of the system itself. Let me go over to Mr. McCrorie here.

Mr. McCrorie, you're the one who's in charge of seeing these people come across the border. Are you satisfied that there's enough integrity? What are the mechanisms to maintain integrity that these people meet the requirements to come in when they're crossing the border?