Evidence of meeting #81 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ircc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Honourable member, could you please not interrupt? I would appreciate it.
Major-General Smith, are you finished?
3:55 p.m.
MGen Greg Smith
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I just came back from Japan last night. I'm so sorry. The chair is going to slap me on the wrist, and he'll be right.
I think I have time for one last question.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay.
A permanent emergency mechanism has been proposed to IRCC in the event of an international crisis. That exists at Global Affairs Canada, but not at IRCC. Could this type of permanent emergency mechanism in the event of an international crisis encourage the various departments to talk to each other if it existed at IRCC?
3:55 p.m.
MGen Greg Smith
I would love to know the details of that proposal.
Thank you.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, as well, to the representatives from DND for being here today.
When the government first announced a special immigration measure for Afghans, DND sent 3,800 files to IRCC. Only 900 of those applications have been confirmed. That is to say, 2,900 of the applications referred by DND are lost somewhere between departments.
Does DND have any updates with regard to what happened to those files?
3:55 p.m.
MGen Paul Prévost
I'll start on this one.
The first thing I'll say about numbers is that we have to be careful. The only thing I can assure you about numbers is this: Every time we mention a number, it's wrong. Things are fluid. The chief of defence always mentions that the truth has a time-stamp.
To clarify, the numbers given by the member are somewhat correct in the fact that, when the crisis occurred, we took every file we could gather from Afghans who were asking the armed forces to establish a link between them. These files were provided to IRCC in the first place. I processed a number of files. I can't exactly remember whether it was 900 or not. As the initial crisis abated, IRCC provided the files back to DND so we could prioritize the files and submit them back again.
So far, National Defence has provided over 2,000 files. None of the files has been lost between IRCC and the armed forces. It was just a matter of reprioritizing the files. Two thousand files have been submitted to IRCC, which, at this point, completes the files we have to submit to IRCC. Now that the 18,000 milestone has been reached, we continue to keep the rest of the files with us. As more space in the future becomes available, we will be ready to resubmit those files.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Of the files that have not yet been processed by IRCC and people not brought to safety, how many of them are left with DND?
4 p.m.
MGen Paul Prévost
It would be more prudent, Mr. Chair, if I don't provide a number. If I give a number, it will be wrong. There is a significant number of files with us, and these files are dated back to two years ago, when they were submitted. We're not sure how many are still valid. We vetted a number of files that we have with us and that we're keeping. No files are being lost or destroyed. As more space becomes available, we will be providing them to the IRCC.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm interested in knowing how many spaces are needed to bring the rest of them to safety.
4 p.m.
MGen Paul Prévost
That's an answer I could not provide.
First, I'm not too sure how many files are still valid, as some of those Afghans have found other places—other ways to get to other countries. At the same time, the work the Canadian Armed Forces did established a link between Afghans and the Canadian Armed Forces. When an individual receives an invitation to apply.... Some of them rest unanswered. That is only one person in an extended family. They can come with 10 or 12 people. In terms of how many people in total would come to Canada, I can't answer that question.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I think what is important here is this: What I do know is that there are Afghans who served Canada, who were part of the mission, and their loved ones, who have not made it to Canada, whose applications were not even accepted. They are just floating out in the wind somewhere. There are people who are still being persecuted by the Taliban and whose lives are at risk.
I'm just trying to figure out if DND actually has a record of how many of those it submitted to IRCC actually made it to safety. What I'm hearing is that we don't know, but there is a bunch of them who need to get to safety and DND is waiting for IRCC to make available the space so that they can come to Canada, be processed and be able to get to safety.
From this perspective...and maybe you're not able to answer this question. The government put an arbitrary cap of 40,000. That number has now been reached. Not everyone has made it to safety—that we know for certain—because I actually have files in my office of people who served Canada, and their loved ones, who could not get to safety.
Would it be useful for the government to lift the cap and make that space available so that DND can continue to submit those files to IRCC to bring those families and the people who served Canada to safety?
4 p.m.
MGen Paul Prévost
I'll just start by saying again that no files have been lost. We know how many have been accepted and how many we still have that we've established—
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm sorry. May I interrupt?
If you know how many you still have, can you tell the committee how many you still have?
4 p.m.
MGen Paul Prévost
I do not have that number. I'll say that it's a significant number of files that we still have. I know that we do have those files. They're still on record, and they will remain on record with us here.
With regard to the second part of the question, 40,000 and 18,000 were goals established or milestones that we've reached. My understanding is that Afghans will be able to continue to apply under other immigration programs with IRCC, and I think it's really more for IRCC to explain those programs.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Could the major-general send in those numbers to the committee when he has them, please?