Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I can start here, and we'll see if General Smith has anything to provide.

We are tracking that the government has reached its goal. It's a milestone. It doesn't mean that the work has stopped. In the case of the programs that pertain to the Canadian Armed Forces, which were one of the special immigration measures for an Afghan who had an enduring and significant link to the Canadian Armed Forces, there's no more space available as part of the 18,000 goal that was set. That said, we continue to work with IRCC. If there's more space available in the program, we continue to provide files to IRCC.

The Canadian Armed Forces' role in this whole process is fairly limited. We do not track exactly how many members of the family join the applicants when they're approved, where they're resettled in Canada or how many made it to Canada. Our role is really to validate that the applicant had a significant and enduring relationship with Canadian Armed Forces members during our operations in Afghanistan.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Major-General Smith, do you want to add something?

[MGen Greg Smith]

No, thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mrs. Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

My next question is in regard to the special committee's recommendations. The first recommendation of the Special Committee on Afghanistan was that the Government of Canada re-examine its whole-of-government review of lessons learned from Afghanistan to ensure that the review addresses all aspects of the government's performance in Afghanistan from February 2020 onwards. While accepting that there may be security considerations, given the sensitivity of DND's work, can you please share with us what specific lessons the Canadian Armed Forces and DND have taken from their own internal reviews and lessons learned?

[MGen Greg Smith]

I'll start, and I tried to refer to some of that in my scene-setting statement. If it does nothing else, it reinforces the importance of collaboration across government. We've talked about IRCC, CBSA and Global Affairs Canada. It's extremely important that we don't work within a silo. It reinforced that, and I think some of the successes that General Prévost could talk about would demonstrate some of that more recently.

It's equally about allies. We are not doing this alone. The statement talks about how difficult operations were out of Kabul and how that was a multinational operation. We evacuated other nationals, and other countries evacuated some people who came to Canada. It has to be international. We have to work with partners from a policy perspective but very definitely from an operational perspective. I would say that it has reinforced those points, and I think some of our more recent operations demonstrate that we've learned from it.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

In recommendation 18, the committee recommended that the Government of Canada instruct Global Affairs Canada to assemble a whole-of-government team, including the Department of National Defence, to help bring Afghans to safety. The government agreed with this recommendation in principle in its response to the report. Could you please outline, from a DND perspective, how this team has done its work and how it has gone?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Major-General Prévost, do you want to go ahead?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Yes. Maybe there are two things that I can say here.

We continue to help IRCC in the vetting process of Afghans who are applying to come to Canada. That work has continued since the crisis started in August 2021. We continue to be available to Global Affairs Canada and IRCC for any other support they require in bringing Afghans home. That's the first aspect of it.

A part of the recommendations in the report is to increase interdepartmental coordination, and I can assure you, Mr. Chair, and the member, that this has been demonstrated numerous times since that unfortunate crisis occurred in 2021. We had Sudan last year, obviously, and right now you have seen over the last few weeks the work we have done in Israel.

Any time a hot spot or crisis starts that has a Canadian interest, on the same day or the next day there's an interdepartmental call that happens within hours at the deputy minister level and the ADM level to start looking into that crisis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, honourable member. Your time is up.

I will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

Please, go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Major‑General Prévost and Major‑General Smith, thank you for your service, for making yourselves available and for being here with us.

There is a biometric requirement in immigration applications that is a barrier for Afghans. It was especially so at the time of the evacuation from Kabul, but it still is. I don't need to explain the context, which is quite difficult.

One of the recommendations of the Special Committee on Afghanistan was to waive the biometric requirements for individuals and families who have worked for the Canadian Armed Forces. That is one of the recommendations in the report.

Your colleagues from other departments, including the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, or IRCC, have indicated that there is an equally rigorous biometric system for individuals and families who have worked for the Canadian Armed Forces. For example, Afghans who had held various positions in their own country could do their biometric tests in a third country. That was put in place to facilitate the process.

Is that other method of security screening still in place at this time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Major-General, the floor is yours.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, I can't answer that question because I'm not aware of the other system.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

That's perfect—

[MGen Paul Prévost]

The Canadian Armed Forces aren't involved in vetting refugees or immigrants.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If I'm not mistaken, National Defence has a biometric capacity.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

It does, but it's not involved in the evacuation of non-combatants and refugees.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So you've never been deployed to a crisis zone to do biometric screening. I'm thinking of Kosovo, for instance.

[MGen Greg Smith]

Mr. Chair, in the past, during tactical operations, we have indeed participated in operations where there has been biometric data collection, for example. However, we don't conduct them when it comes to immigration.

That's what I wanted to clarify.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I understand. So there's a biometric capacity.

I'm not trying to be critical, but I'm really trying to understand what would happen if a similar crisis occurred again.

We know that National Defence has a biometric capacity and that biometric requirements were a major obstacle for some Afghans when they were accepted by IRCC.

You told us that you were having department-wide discussions. Has this issue ever been raised with you? Since you're on the front line, and you have the necessary biometric capabilities, wouldn't that be a way to help people who absolutely have to leave so that they no longer have to face this kind of challenge? I'm thinking of the Afghans, among others. That's what concerns us right now.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Mr. Chair, I'm not familiar with that file.

I'll find out if that possibility has already been considered. As Major‑General Smith said, the biometric capabilities of the Canadian Forces are used in our operations, for example against the Islamic State, and not in the context of an evacuation of refugees or Canadian citizens.

The Minister of National Defence still has the necessary authority to respond to a request from one of his colleagues to provide a service, as is done in a number of cases.

So I'll check to see if this issue has already been discussed.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The goal would be to use the tools at our disposal.

That happened in the case of Kosovo.

The biometric tests were done on Canadian soil by Canada Border Services Agency officers who also have a biometric capacity. Instead of doing them before, we managed to bring people here.

So I'll leave you with that example. I think it would be a really good idea to eventually add these tests to your services in the event of such a crisis.

We're talking about a crisis, but it's not necessarily an armed conflict. It could be a natural disaster, like an earthquake or a tsunami, when people need to be evacuated quickly. Since you're on the front line most of the time, this could be another tool so that everyone can get out quickly and be accepted here in Canada.

If I understood correctly, you talked about ad hoc departmental meetings.

Would you be able to tell us how many times you met about the Afghan crisis? I'm asking the question because you told us that there were ad hoc meetings. I imagine there must be a number. If you don't have it today, would it be possible for you to submit it to the committee?

[MGen Greg Smith]

I will support my colleague by saying that there are constant meetings. As mentioned, this is done at all levels of the chain of command, from the deputy minister to the assistant deputy minister, to the director general and the workers.

There are hundreds of exchanges of information across government and with allies. So there are hundreds of meetings.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Is that done between departments?