Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 87 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Today we are studying the subject matter of the supplementary estimates (B) for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

For the first hour, I am pleased to welcome the Honourable Marc Miller, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. He is joined by several officials from the department: deputy minister Fox, Ms. Manseau, Ms. Dorion, Ms. Baird and Ms. Park.

Welcome to the committee.

Before the minister starts, I would request of honourable members that instead of having cross-conversations—I know, Alexis, you like it when the French speakers come in—I request that you go through the chair. If the minister is taking a bit longer, just raise your hand, and I will interrupt and take the time into consideration so that members get a fair amount of time for questioning the minister.

With that, Minister Miller, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know that was a very nice way of telling me not to get worked up. I appreciate the indirectness of it.

I want to start by acknowledging that we are meeting here on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

I am here today with the officials whom you named to discuss the work we're doing to strengthen the immigration system and reduce backlogs, and to manage the increased interest in Canada that we see at historic levels, and the need for skilled labour across the country.

As you know, in November, I tabled the immigration levels plan for 2024‑26, which stabilizes our annual levels to ensure a responsible path for immigration.

This plan will help businesses find the workers that they need, keep Canada on a path of long‑term economic success and ensure that we stay true to our humanitarian commitments.

At the same time, we are taking steps to ensure that our immigration levels are aligned with pressures in areas such as housing, notably, and infrastructure. We continue to work with all levels of government in this regard and are taking immediate action to address urgent housing challenges, notably for asylum claimants. Through the interim housing assistance program, in particular, Canada is providing $212 million to reimburse provinces and municipalities to provide safe shelters for asylum seekers and relieve housing pressures on municipalities. This includes $97 million for the City of Toronto alone, relieving pressures on the greater Toronto area as a whole.

More recently, we announced $7 million in funding towards a new reception centre in Peel to provide temporary shelter for asylum seekers and divert them from the shelter system, helping to relieve pressures on Peel and the surrounding area. Not only will this provide asylum seekers with warm shelters ahead of the winter months, but the Peel reception centre will also connect them to essential services and supports. We're also taking steps to improve processing times so that we can welcome skilled newcomers to Canada more quickly and more efficiently.

Through changes to our permanent resident immigration programs, we're bringing in the workers needed to address skills and labour shortages across the country.

This month, I met with my provincial and territorial counterparts to discuss the need to attract skilled workers to address critical labour shortages and to work in a more coordinated fashion.

For instance, construction companies are looking to hire thousands of workers to help build new homes and infrastructure.

The funding will also contribute to capacity building and overall system and processing improvements that support the immigration levels for this year, next year and 2025.

It will also improve the efficiency of temporary resident processing by streamlining immigration processes to help employers in vital sectors like agriculture, health care, construction and technology to bring in skilled foreign workers more efficiently.

These investments in technology and processing capacity are critical. We've been facing unprecedented demand to come to Canada across many categories of newcomers.

With new digital solutions, automating certain administrative tasks, and streamlining processes, my department is reducing wait times and application inventories to bring in workers, students and visitors here more efficiently. Funding for improving our temporary resident processing will help us speed up visitor visa work and study permit applications and the decisions that come with them.

While our focus remains on economic immigration that supports employers and communities, we're continuing to fulfill our commitments to reunite families and address humanitarian crises.

That is why we extended support for those affected by Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, providing temporary refuge for more than 200,000 Ukrainian nationals and their family members.

The funding reflects the extension of the Canada‑Ukraine authorization for emergency travel from March to July of this year. The support measures needed after these vulnerable newcomers arrive have been extended until March 2024.

The Government of Canada allocated $53 million as part of the Canada‑Ukraine authorization for emergency travel to support Ukrainian nationals in Quebec in 2022‑23 and 2023‑24.

Overall, these measures align with our plan to stabilize immigration, while helping businesses find the workers they need both quickly and efficiently.

We continue to harness our immigration system to chart Canada on a path of long-term success, all while staying true to our humanitarian traditions as a country.

Thank you.

I look forward to answering your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Minister. You're right on the dot.

Before I go to the first round, we have two honourable members visiting us. They will be asking questions.

Mr. Godin and Mr. Morrice, welcome to the committee.

There were some questions from committee members about staff. We have booked resources until seven o'clock, but that does not mean we have to go until seven o'clock. You can tell me to adjourn any time, and I will work with that.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I planned for a two‑hour committee meeting, since I received a notice stating two hours. I don't see why it would be more than two hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'll take that into consideration. We will most likely stop around six, but we'll give the minister the full hour here.

Without further ado, I am going to Mr. Kmiec.

Mr. Kmiec, go ahead for your six minutes with the minister.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, in your opening statement, you talked about construction workers. I'm glad there was mention of that. You then talked about different policies to address gaps in the workforce. The one I didn't hear you mention was health care, that is, addressing the shortages in health care that we have. We're hearing stories from across the country about doctors from the United Kingdom, South Africa and other countries with comparable training. They are awaiting permanent residency.

The case I want to bring up is that of an Ottawa-area doctor, Dr. Carmen Bilcea. She applied for permanent residency and was rejected by your department.

Why is that? Have you seen this story?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It is both imprudent and bad policy to comment on individual cases.

I understand the individual applied under the express entry draw. I don't think the conclusion is that the person is excluded from permanent residency. That is all I can say publicly about it.

However, it is clear that, in the context of health care workers.... Since the summer, we've drawn in 2,000, which I think is important. There is definitely a need for doctors.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Mr. Chair, she has gone public. It's in the news. There is an article. CTV News Ottawa is reporting on her particular situation. She came to Canada in 2021 from the United Kingdom. She works at Meadowlands Family Health Center. There are 1,200 patients depending on her for health services, and you're telling me that you're not going to comment on this story.

Has anyone in your office reached out to her?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Again, there are pieces of information that I am not at liberty to speak to you about. What I am at liberty to speak to you about is her permit, which allows her to practise until 2028.

I think you know we are quite strict and stringent about the level of information we share with the public. If someone goes public, it does not mean, correspondingly, that the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship can speak publicly and broadly about the details and merits of the case.

I can say quite clearly that we absolutely need doctors in this country, whether they are homegrown or brought in from abroad.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

In the same article, the doctor says that “she will have to return to the UK in a little more than a year, or risk losing her medical licence there where it has to be renewed yearly.” You're saying that because of red tape your office has not spoken to her. You've not reached out to her and nobody has spoken to her. This is a doctor with 1,200 patients.

According to the CMA, in a survey early this summer, one in five Canadians has no family doctor. A family doctor here is saying that they have to go back to their country of origin. You're saying, “I'm sorry, but bureaucratic red tape stops me from talking about it or helping this person attain permanent residency”, and 1,200 Canadians can't keep having a family doctor.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

With all due respect, I think you're making lots of statements and drawing lots of conclusions that aren't accurate.

The one thing I can say to you is that her case should not be prosecuted in front of this committee. I would also add that this does not preclude our having spoken to her, nor can you draw the conclusion that we haven't.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Minister, we're not prosecuting anything. It's a story printed by CTV News Ottawa, published on November 30. It goes into the details. She says, “It breaks my heart because I do understand how important it is for every single person to have a family doctor.” She goes on to say that “The entire immigration process in Canada is extremely lengthy, extremely torturous, is costly and the outcome is uncertain.”

Do you agree with her?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I agree that at times that is the case. Again, to speak to the individual facts of the case in front of this committee is untoward. It doesn't mean that we aren't deploying efforts to make sure people do have family doctors in this country. It is the focus of our department.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It's the job of members of Parliament to advocate for Canadians. I see 1,200 patients of hers—and this clinic—who are going to lose a family doctor, because you're telling me it's red-tape bureaucracy.

Will you commit, Minister, to reaching out to her? Will you commit that one of the exempt staffers on your political staff will reach out to her to resolve this issue, so that 1,200 Canadians can have a family doctor for Christmas?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Again, this is not something I'm going to talk about publicly. If it gets done, you can draw your own conclusion.

Again, what you're using the committee's time to do is to talk about a news article that I think is very compelling. Some of the conclusions actually do apply to some of the challenges we face as a department. You're also asking me to talk about specifics and facts that exist within the department, which would be utterly wrong to do in a public context.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Let's make it generic, then. If this happens again over the next six months, how will you react? Will you reach out to the doctors to make sure it doesn't happen again?

You have occupational draws that are being made. There are a certain number of spots being set aside for it. I would have thought a doctor who's already practising in Canada would then be eligible to stay and that your department would make sure that they would get one of the very few permanent residency spots afforded to them.

Let's just make this a generic case. In the future, when this happens again, will you reach out to them and make sure that Canadians can keep the family doctors they have now, and that those people will get permanent residency in Canada?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I've been quite clear both publicly and directly to my department that we should prioritize doctors. In the health care field we're deploying extraordinary efforts to attract people from abroad. It is critical to get doctors. We need to make it easy for them.

That is a very important answer that I'd like to offer this committee. I've kept it deliberately general to preserve important facts and information that we need to keep confidential.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Minister, you say you've directed the department to look at family doctors. It didn't happen in this particular case. She had to go public. She went to a journalist, and it's all over the news right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, honourable member. The time is up.

Minister, do you want to respond?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I can't control what people put in the news. That is their choice. Issues like these are unfortunate when they arise in the public domain. It is clear that we have to do a better job of making sure that we do attract and keep doctors in Canada to make sure that patients are well served.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Minister.

I will go to Madam Zahid now.

Madam Zahid, you can go to the Minister now for six minutes, please.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before the committee.

Minister, I know we all have been deeply moved and concerned by the humanitarian crisis happening in Gaza right now. I know that your colleagues at Global Affairs are working hard to allow all Canadians, permanent residents and their immediate families to leave Gaza. Of course, it is not up to us, but the local authorities on when and how Canadians can leave.

This has raised an issue we often deal with in immigration—the definition of “immediate family”. In the Canadian and IRCC context, it means a spouse and dependant children under the age of 22. In my own culture, and, frankly, most others outside the U.S., it is much broader and includes siblings and grandparents.

Right now, Canada is not helping these people leave Gaza, other than the immediate family members. I've heard from grandparents whose grandchildren have lost their parents and they have no one to take care of them. People have siblings there who have no one else there. They want to come to Canada to be cared for and be with their families.

Will you take this opportunity to redefine the definition of “immediate family”, and help more people with strong ties to reach Canada safely?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you, MP Zahid, for that and for your advocacy.

First and foremost, as we continue to see with shock and horror the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, I think that our policies do need to evolve. Despite our best intentions, we do face some very challenging realities on the ground in getting people out at the Rafah gates. That reflects the war. It reflects security concerns of partners on the ground that make it very challenging to get even the narrow categories that we have out and to safety. That includes Canadians, permanent residents and the categories you enumerated.

At the same time, we have been flexible and been advocating for them to make sure that people who don't fall into those categories do and are able to get out, but it isn't a sure shot by any stretch of the imagination. I am looking currently within my department at options to expand that policy, but it is one that is conditioned by a number of considerations, particularly ones related to security and our effective ability to extract people from a war zone.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I hope you will carefully look into that.

My next question is in regard to the caregiver programs. I represent a significant Filipino community, and I meet regularly with members of the Filipino community across Canada.

Recently I was in Saskatoon, and the top question I heard was about the two caregiver pilots. These programs are coming to an end, and there's a lot of anxiety over what is to come. I heard both positive and constructive feedback. People are glad they can bring their families, but they are concerned about the language requirements and processing times.

Will you offer some clarity to caregivers on the future of these programs and talk about why they are so important to Canada?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I think their importance has been proven. Obviously you're not the only one who has seen the importance of those programs, which have been introduced, as you said, as pilots.

Currently, we are looking at options for expanding them further. The parameters of those have not been discussed publicly yet. We're still doing some work internally to see what considerations can be brought to the table in terms of expanding those initiatives. They have changed thousands of lives and have given people an economic opportunity while filling some important labour shortages and gaps.

There are some successes, and there are some challenges with the programs, as you know, particularly compared with what existed previously. They are ones we have to carefully analyze before we take the next step.