Evidence of meeting #89 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
We have quorum, and I am going to call the meeting to order.
This is our first meeting in the beginning of the new year. Happy new year to everyone, and welcome.
We are meeting in public.
Before we continue, on behalf of all of you I would love to welcome our new clerk, Mr. Rémi Bourgault. He's been a good friend for a long time.
It's good to have you here.
For technical support we have Audrée.
Audrée, welcome to the meeting as well.
Mr. McLean, because—
6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Yes, we have business to continue. The floor is going to Ms. Kayabaga to start with, and then I'll put you on the list.
6 p.m.
Conservative
December 12th, 2023 / 6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Let me carry on the meeting. If there are no points of order, I would rather continue.
Welcome to meeting number 89 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.
The meeting was not adjourned on December 12, so today will be the continuation of the meeting.
Today we are continuing our discussion on the motion of Ms. Kwan. For the second part of the meeting, with the consent of the committee, pursuant to the motion adopted by the committee on December 12, we will begin the study on persons with temporary status and undocumented individuals. We have two witnesses from IRCC.
Officials from Public Safety Canada were not available to appear today, but the clerk is in contact with the department to schedule the appearance of CBSA officials at a later date regarding this study.
I would like to remind members of the email sent by the clerk. On Wednesday, February 7, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship will appear with officials for a briefing on the migrant trafficking motion adopted on November 30, 2023. The Minister of Public Safety is not available to appear. Consequently, Minister Miller will be present for the first hour with officials from IRCC, CBSA, and RCMP. The officials are also available for the second hour. The notice will be published later today.
Next week we will resume the study on persons with temporary status and undocumented individuals with witnesses, using the list sent to the clerk last Friday. If you have not submitted the list yet, please do so this afternoon.
For your information, the Library of Parliament prepared a background paper for this study on persons with temporary status and undocumented individuals. The document will be available on Wednesday, even though it was supposed to be available today.
Before we begin, I will need confirmation from the members that we are okay to invite the UN rapporteur for one hour on Monday, February 26. This is the witness who is available the earliest on that day.
Now, to begin on the motion of Ms. Kwan, if I'm not mistaken, Madam Kayabaga had the floor. We can start the debate.
Madam Kayabaga, the floor is yours.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I have a point of order before you get into the motion and other business.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm just trying to sort out in my head here what you just told the committee, which is that we would have two separate meetings with officials. That's one with IRCC and then one with CBSA. I'm not quite sure why the committee would do that. Normally we would have officials come together at the same time. Now, instead of one meeting, we're having two meetings.
The other thing that I wanted to raise is an ongoing issue with committee members. This is that we begin many things before we finish the many things that are just sitting there. We still have, for example, the draft letter on Afghanistan that we need to finish, as an example. We do have the rapporteur piece and then we also have a couple of motions with respect to the minister appearing.
I'm hesitant to start another committee when we have so many things that are still on our agenda as unfinished business. Then, of course, we're doing it in such a way that it means having an additional meeting with respect to that study.
Could I get a clarification? I heard you say in your opening that it requires consent for us to proceed accordingly. Is that unanimous consent that's required?
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
On the rapporteur, I would love to have the consent of the committee, because that's the only day that's available. If you want the rapporteur to appear on that day, I would love to have your consent. If you're not willing, that's fine. The committee can decide its own business.
As we go, as for the letter that you talked about, we are already addressing the rapporteur issue. Certainly we will be coming to the draft letter for Afghanistan as well, because we need time for the members to get prepared to give instructions. That's also on the go.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm fine with the rapporteur, because the rapporteur needs to come. With respect to the other aspect, which is the two officials coming, on the IRCC, —
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
—instead of starting that other study, why didn't we finish up the Afghanistan piece, for example? We're just starting a whole bunch of stuff without finishing things.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
It's not. It's an agenda on the go.
The officials from CBSA were not available today. The clerk is going to contact them to make sure we'll be able to deal with this first. The Afghanistan letter is also on the agenda. We will certainly adopt that as well.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I know.
Wouldn't it have been better, for the second hour, to do the Afghanistan letter instead of actually splitting out the other meeting? That would have been a better option.
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Instead, they decided to do this and then start another study without finishing off the other work that has yet to be done. I don't agree with that, Mr. Chair.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
I appreciate that, Madam Kwan.
I know you had a family emergency, so I'm with you on that. I tried to contact you folks, and the only response I got was from the Conservatives. They were okay with the officials appearing, and that's how the decision was made.
We can continue.
Madam Kayabaga, the floor is with you.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I'm going to have to respond to that.
You used the WhatsApp platform, which is a platform that we don't normally use for committee. Then the message was delivered only in English and not in French as well, which is also inappropriate. In about an hour, a decision was made.
You are correct that I was dealing with a family emergency. My mother was in the hospital, so I did not get to WhatsApp and all the different platforms. I was checking my emails, and then that didn't happen.
On a different note, Mr. Chair, you were inquiring about last week with respect to the meeting. You actually called me to ask for my opinion. With respect to this latest issue, you didn't do that. You did not follow the same protocol or even proper protocol, to be honest. It's just kind of all over the place, however you want to do it.
Then one party responded, and that became the decision. I don't think that is appropriate, Mr. Chair.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Let me say this, Madam Kwan. I've been very fair and I've been very open with the committee members. I already apologized to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe on this French thing and I deleted the group right away. We are all human beings. We make mistakes.
I personally went to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe on that issue. When it comes to French, if you go to the B.C. Francophonie, they will tell you I'm a big supporter and a big advocate of French, outside of even Quebec. That was an honest mistake or an oversight on my part. Certainly when it comes to the issues that you are talking about, the rapporteur is already on the schedule. When you're talking about the letter to be drafted on Afghanistan, that's also on the go.
Let's continue with the meeting.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
What I want is for us to actually set proper protocol and proper process.
What you ended up doing here was deciding on committee business without proper consultation with all the parties and without the proper process. That is the issue. You just want to gloss over it and then move on. It is not appropriate, Mr. Chair.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Do you want to amend the agenda today? If you believe in that, we can continue that as well. That's no issue.
6 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Yes, I would like to amend the agenda. I would also like to ensure that in the future, this kind of process doesn't repeat itself or we don't embark on the same kind of process that just happened.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
It has never happened before and it will not happen again. I can assure you of that.
I hope that will satisfy you. I apologize if it hurt your feelings and you personally feel that I didn't follow the procedure in the right way. I will make sure I do due diligence moving forward.
