Evidence of meeting #92 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
I'm sorry; I can't recall.
I met 10 or so. I'm sorry, but I don't have the exact numbers at this stage.
February 26th, 2024 / 12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
You were here only for 14 days. I get that.
Can you put a numeric figure to this claim? You said that.... We looked at that, but I guess you weren't able to put a number to those you'd met.
I'd like to go back to the employers in Canada and why it was so important to meet some of these fishermen and the farmers. You mentioned that there are other industries that you felt had this form of slavery involved here in this country as well.
Employers in Canada who take on temporary foreign workers are required to fill out a labour market impact assessment. They're also required, in many cases, to pay for the transportation to and from Canada of these individuals, and they have to provide proper housing. All of this comes at a significant financial and time cost to the employers.
Now, if we're going to go with the suggestion that you're making in regard to open contracts, why would these individuals even go this route with the investment that they've made? We already have situations where, if the employee isn't happy, they can go to another employer.
Can you give me an answer as to how many farmers you've personally interviewed in your investigation in regard to that?
12:15 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
We had a consultation afterwards, and these issues were raised. I do appreciate that employers, whether in agriculture or not, spend an enormous amount of time, effort and resources to recruit. I appreciate that, but that doesn't give them the right to exploit or abuse workers.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
No, it doesn't, but the indication is that this is a form of slavery, and there's a bit of a difference here in regard to the terminology that's being used.
You're saying that you did meet with some of these farmers. What did you learn from them?
12:15 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
I certainly learned some of the good things that they do in terms of promoting the rights of workers, and I believe that they do that, in the farmers' defence.
I also heard some of the concerns about where they can go from there, and I think that's a good question, as well.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
12:15 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
Again, this consultation took place after my visit. I saw it as necessary, so I reached out to various sectors, but they didn't respond when I was visiting. There was not much I could do about that, but in order to be fair, I reached out and had a conversation. The full report reflects some of the things that I discovered.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
I'm going to go back to the fact that Employment and Social Development Canada itself is aware of some of these things. Obviously, they've done more work than you did on this, and they told you that 94% of the employers in Canada were already compliant.
I get the conversation we had about one bad apple being one too many, but did you take that into consideration in your report, as well? If you did, then why did you come in with the idea that—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
I'm going to go to Mr. Obokata to respond. We're already over five minutes.
Mr. Obokata, give a short answer, please.
12:15 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
I take various information into consideration for my full report.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you.
We'll go to Ms. Kayabaga.
Ms. Kayabaga, the floor is yours for five minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the special rapporteur for taking the opportunity to answer questions on this really important study that we're doing.
I also want to recognize the seriousness of the claims of migrants who have been abused, as well as the fact that there are a lot of ethical farmers in our country who are doing their best to care for their employees.
Based on the report that you put together, one of the biggest problems is that temporary foreign workers aren't aware of the measures and programs available to them if they're in an abusive situation. One of the programs I can think of is the open work permit for vulnerable workers, in particular, but there are many others as well.
Would you have any recommendations on how the government can increase the awareness of these programs? For example, the Canadian Centre To End Human Trafficking, Covenant House Vancouver, and FCJ Refugee Centre have recommended that employees participate in things like paid workshops performed by independent organizations. That's to ensure that Canadian embassies and consulates provide information on labour rights to workers before they arrive in Canada.
Are there any other recommendations that you can make on this?
12:20 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
First and foremost, a multi-stakeholder approach is extremely important. I do acknowledge that the Canadian government—the federal and provincial governments—is taking steps to include various stakeholders in exploring the best possible options for migrant workers, and I do encourage them to continue to uphold the multi-stakeholder approach, particularly including workers. Without speaking to them, it may be extremely difficult to create a program that is suitable for workers as well as employers. That's the way to approach the civil society sector, trade unions and so on. I'm sure that's happening at various levels, but I'd like to see more of those in all provinces.
In terms of the open work permit, yes, it is a useful thing to have, but there are certain issues also raised in that. Not everyone can take advantage of it, and then there's that differential treatment in terms of, particularly, undocumented migrant workers, so I do hope that the federal government would take steps to regularize their status—I think that's quite important—so that they are able to be reintegrated.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
In your “End of Mission Statement”, you had criticism of employer-provided housing. You cited overcrowding, unsanitary living conditions, lack of privacy, lack of gender-sensitive housing arrangements, and arbitrary restrictions on energy use.
Do you believe that employers should be providing housing to temporary foreign workers under these streams? If not, what are some of the alternatives that you are proposing? If the answer is yes, how can the requirements be improved from what they are right now?
12:20 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
Provided that the living conditions are good and in line with international human rights standards, I don't see why the employers cannot provide accommodations. I think it's extremely difficult to inspect, so I think the housing inspection should occur regularly with the help of various sectors. I think it's always important.... If there are no resources for labour inspection, why not work with trade unions and civil society organizations so that they can work together to inspect these premises on a regular basis?
If they were to live outside of that, again, the local and federal governments should provide guidance to make sure they have access to affordable housing, which I appreciate is a very difficult thing, not just for migrant workers but for the citizens of Canada as well.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
During your stay, did you visit any employer-provided housing?
12:20 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
No, I did not have a chance to visit. Once again, these locations were sometimes farms. As much as I would like to visit, the extent to which I can gain much out of it.... If I announce that I am going, would I be able to see the reality of it? Also, if I were to be refused—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
I'm sorry to interrupt, but what would you say you are basing your information on, if you weren't able to visit?
12:20 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
I have spoken to a large number of migrant workers who are living in employee-provided accommodations, not just in one location, not just in one sector, but in different sectors. Their stories were emerging from different sectors. I'm not necessarily criticizing agriculture, for example, but that seems to be the case in some others.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
We'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Professor, you said that other countries have changed their systems and eliminated closed work permits.
Which countries?
12:25 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
To the best of my knowledge, in the European countries, under the European Union directive on seasonal workers, workers are allowed to choose and change their employers. I think that's happening in Japan. They are actively forming their own technical internship program. They have just announced that. I think they are also considering allowing the workers—
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I didn't hear the interpretation, but I don't want to waste time on that. I still understood.
12:25 p.m.
Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Slavery, United Nations, As an Individual
Sorry, I didn't get the English translation.