Evidence of meeting #29 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for coming.
I have three question areas. I will ask the three questions and then get out of the way.
One question is about the north. I noticed in your speech you did talk about the economy. On page 34 in the report on plans and priorities the amount of money that is actually allocated on the northern economy is allocated this year but then is reduced substantially in the two years after that.
On housing in the north, on pages 8, 15, and 30 to 34, program activities around the north are all mentioned and housing isn't mentioned anywhere there, so I wonder what the department's plan is for Inuit housing.
On audit requirements, which of course is mentioned throughout this document, I would like to know what the department is doing in response to the previous Auditor General's report that said that first nations are required to produce 168 reports per year. I would like to know what's being done in terms of reducing the paper burden on first nations and making it more effective so the department gets what it needs. As well, I would like to know what the department is doing in terms of providing more substantial information around both the committee and the public being able to track actual department expenditures in various program activities like family violence, post-secondary education, and so on.
My third question has to do with elementary or K-to-12 education and has to do with the band operating funding formula. My understanding is that the educational authority has simply been renewed at the same level, despite the department's own information that the average annual rate of growth was 4.7% from 1996 up to 2005. I point to the fact that, for example, in New Brunswick the province is paying $8,700 per student per year, and if all first nations students in New Brunswick were turned over to the province, the department would pay $8,700 per student per year. This is according to an e-mail exchange with Gail Metallic.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
That was in New Brunswick. I know you mentioned an MOU, but the BOFF formula has been extended at the same rate.
If you could deal with those three questions, perhaps you could start with the north and then go to the audit.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
On housing in the north, certainly, as I mentioned in my remarks to the polar shelf group this morning, housing in the north is an important issue, and that's why we specifically started in 2006 with some programming that was specifically targeted to the north. We announced the northern housing trust, some $300 million specifically for affordable housing in the territories.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I'm sorry, Minister, but that is not targeted specifically for Inuit housing. It's for all of the north. That is my understanding of that $300 million, and it isn't mentioned anywhere in the priorities document. I wonder why it's not. I know what you've done in the past, but I wonder why it's not in the plans and priorities document.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
The plans for the north are the kinds of things we do with the provinces, but they are an agreement with the Government of Nunavut. I realize it is not exclusively Inuit, but it targets that money for where they think it's necessary and where it's prioritized. So it's working with the Government of Nunavut to make that happen.
For example, $200 million was specifically for Nunavut, and Nunavut allocates that money based on what they see as their priorities. It is not an Inuit-specific program, but certainly the majority of recipients will be Inuit, given the demographics and the socio-economic conditions. So the majority of that will go to Inuit, but because it is a public government, it's not targeted specifically for Inuit in that way.
The program is predicted to create some 1,200 units, over 700 of them in Nunavut alone, where the needs are particularly acute. We are obviously working with this market housing initiative that we announced the other day. It is something that will be useful for some people. Again, it's not supposed to solve all the problems, but it will be useful for some people in some parts.
You've caught me off guard because of the Inuit-specific part of it, but, again, it's not targeted for Inuit. It's targeted for Nunavutians. I don't think that's the right word. Anyway, it's for the people of Nunavut generally.
On economic and social development, of course the big push up north, I read Premier Roland's speech that he gave here only last week. His number one priority, as is ours, is the Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline. If you're looking at that particular part of the world, that is certainly a big one there. In that agreement there's a potential $500 million--
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
My question was, why in 2008-09 is the direct money $23.2 million, while in 2009-10 it's $1.9 million? That's my question. Why the huge drop year over year? This is on page 34. It's an enormous drop.
4:05 p.m.
Michael Wernick Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The program sunsets March 31, so it can't appear in estimates as applying to future years.
4:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
If it's renewed, when it's renewed it will show up in next year's estimates.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
With respect to producing reports and reducing paperwork, this is something that was raised when we introduced an audit clause. It was a concern raised by some people who said we already produce a lot of reports. The Auditor General certainly suggested that there may be too many reports. So how do we reduce that paperwork? Is this audit provision going to force us to do more?
The answer is no. It's not a requirement for more paperwork. It will allow us to do audits of many of the reports that are already done. In other words, the concern is that reports are done and nothing is done with them, no proper evaluation. So it's a report for reporting's sake.
We want to get value for money and make sure that we're doing a better job on program design. If we're going to ask people to produce reports, it's only right that we audit and evaluate them properly. I think many of them are just reports for the sake of doing reports.
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Mr. Chairman, perhaps we could take that up after the minister leaves. Mr. Yeates is leading a reporting burden initiative.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister, for coming in this afternoon. We appreciate the time you've given to us and to this file.
Minister, this last number of months we've watched as the spring thaw has happened in many of our communities, including in my own. We've had concerns about water quality in some communities. I've been able to provide upgrades in some of my communities, and we're thankful for that, because concerns about water quality have gone down in some of these communities.
One of the things that spring brings for some communities is flooding concerns. I'm wondering if you could address the issue. CBC and Global ran reports on Kashechewan and the flooding there. It looks similar to the flooding that happened in past years.
I'm wondering if you could update us on the infrastructure in Kashechewan and how it affected the evacuation, the flooding, and the return of the people.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
It has been an important thing. There are ongoing problems there and in Attawapiskat. But it's important to remember that the communities and their leadership have done an excellent job in working with emergency experts from the Province of Ontario, who are in charge of actual safety and evacuation. They've done a good job.
As water rises, concern rises. The problem always lies in deciding when to take precautionary steps. If the entire community is flooded, you have a real problem, because there's no way to get to the community. Even the airport goes under.
The truth of the matter is that we did quite a bit of work after the flood of 2006. We did a lot of work on the diking, the pumping systems, and the weirs. We also trained operators on updating and protecting the water systems, the safe-water drinking systems.
Unfortunately, what you saw on TV was not actually what was happening. I was none too pleased with this. I guess the television networks didn't have enough good coverage, enough inundation, because the communities never flooded. They never flooded.
Both Global and CBC ran old footage from 2006. The communities were not flooded. The dikes did their work, the money we invested in infrastructure and training paid off, and the safe-drinking-water systems never went down.
What you saw on TV was a preventive measure to make sure no one got hurt. You don't want someone stuck in a hospital in case a flood comes, but the community didn't flood and the diking did its work.
I think it is bordering on irresponsible to heighten the concern all of us had by running old footage of old floods. That was not helpful.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
It was presented as if it was going on at that point, so I appreciate that.
Can you inform us if the folks have been able to return, the people who were evacuated?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
Yes, for Kashechewan. They were out for a very few days. They went out the early part of the week and were back by that Sunday, I think.
I mentioned there are ongoing concerns at Attawapiskat. It comes in phased evacuations. In phase one you take out elderly or sick people, people who would obviously have mobility issues, and so on. Then it ups as the danger increases. So they're halfway between a phase one and a phase two, if you will, but things are encouraging there.
The latest reports I've had today indicate the river's increasingly open. There's a small ice jam in the middle. Ice jams are the big problem in that territory, but everything seems to be progressing, and we're hopeful that people will start to be able to return shortly.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I appreciate that, Minister.
Minister, I'd like to move on to a different issue. It's with regard to the common experience payment. I just got an e-mail from one of my constituents who recounted the story of her father, who lived through the horrors of a residential school situation. Maybe you can give us an update on the numbers of the take-up on the payment. The interesting story was that the father wasn't aboriginal. He was of English descent, but hadn't been given or hadn't accessed the information. He had mistakenly understood that the common experience payment and the work that's being done on the residential schools is simply for aboriginals.
I'm wondering if you can give us some information with regard to the take-up on the payment and also the outreach to communicate to people who were involved in the residential school system. What's being done to inform people they can access this program?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
I did mention some of the numbers in my speech. I think there have been some 91,000 applications.
I'm going to punt this so Peter gets on the record on his last day in committee.
Certainly more people have applied than was originally predicted. We thought we had a ballpark number. It has exceeded that. That's good. That means the message is getting out. People are applying in good numbers, and a good number of them have already settled and the common experience payment has been made.
Maybe I could get Mr. Harrison to give us a few numbers on that.
May 14th, 2008 / 4:15 p.m.
Peter Harrison Deputy Minister, Indian Residential Schools Resolution Canada, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Mr. Chair, we follow this on a daily basis. The report today is that Service Canada has received 92,480 applications since September 19, which is 30 weeks ago. We have paid out 64,572 payments to individuals; 17,814 have been ineligible for a variety of reasons, including not having been to the school, been a day student, and so on. The amount in the 30 weeks, Mr. Chair, is $1.25 billion.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Chuck Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
If there are specific questions you want to chase down with him, you could do that in subsequent rounds as well.
