Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 4th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to our committee meeting.

Our order of business today is pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, November 13, 2007, Bill C-21, An Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act. We do have with us three officials—Mr. Jim Hendry, Mr. Martin Reiher, and Mr. Charles Pryce—if we need assistance along the way today.

Before we actually begin with the clause-by-clause, I just wanted to talk for a second with the committee members.

I am new to this committee, as you know, and new to chairing, as you know. Last week, when we had witnesses, from both the Auditor General's office as well as the minister, I was.... For example, with the witnesses from the Auditor General, I was very loose in terms of dealing with the clock. I wasn't strict in terms of following time. Last Thursday, when we had the minister, I told the committee before we started that I was going to be strict with the clock. I thought that was fair to everyone, and I thought it only fair to tell you before we started how I was going to try to manage the meeting. I thought that worked fairly well.

Today, as we go through this, I just want to say the same thing. We're going to have a discussion of a variety of amendments that have been brought forward. I can't presume to know everything that will be brought forward, but I did see a list earlier today of some draft amendments. I want you to know, in terms of ruling on the admissibility or inadmissibility of these amendments, that I will be cautious, meaning that I need to be convinced that the amendment is admissible.

So as we go through today, I'm sure we're going to have several of those conversations.

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I know that the committee members got two letters from the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. Of course, because Bill C-21 was introduced and brought back to committee, there wasn't an opportunity to bring these witnesses forward, so I wondered how the committee was going to proceed with the request to come and present information around Bill C-21. I think the letters were dated November 19 and November 20.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

In terms of how the committee is going to proceed, as you know we're going to begin with clause-by-clause today on Bill C-21. If we finish today, then I guess we will have to decide what we're going to do on Thursday. If we don't finish today, we're going to continue with this at our next meeting on Thursday. Next Tuesday, we already have a different meeting set up to hear witnesses. Then it's my expectation that if we're not done with clause-by-clause for Bill C-21 on Thursday, we would continue it next Thursday.

I have no plans to interrupt or postpone the clause-by-clause in order to hear more witnesses, if that was the question.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I guess it was more around what sort of process we're going to use. Will a letter go out from the chair? I'm just curious.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

We had this conversation two or three meetings ago. The clerk and I did draft a generic letter that we are sending to a variety of different groups who have sent in a request to appear before the committee, telling them that for the coming weeks—which basically is this week and next week and then we're on a six-week break—we don't have available time on the agenda but that in the coming months, I believe the letter says, we'll reconsider those things.

So I think we'll need to have another subcommittee meeting. I don't know whether that will be necessary next week. I was thinking more when we come back the first week of January that we would have a subcommittee meeting and we would look at the coming weeks after that to lay out the agenda.

Ms. Neville, did you have a comment?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I just have a question.

You referenced other letters, and I'm wondering whether any of the other letters pertained to this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I don't know.

No?

The clerk says no.

Ms. Keeper.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I'm not clear what you're saying. You had, in response to Ms. Crowder's request, these letters of request to speak to the committee on Bill C-21. You said you had prepared letters....

So there are no letters that are responding to those requests going from the committee? That's what I'm asking for clarification of; you didn't seem certain.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Over the past two or three months, we've received letters from different organizations, including these ones. We drafted what I would call a generic response—i.e., “We got your letter, and we got your request”--

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

So it has been sent out?

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Well, it has been sent out to some of the other ones. I don't know whether it has gone out on this one yet or not.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

The response, then, to these groups—

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Oh, I'm sorry; the clerk is saying that the response has gone from the clerk but not from the chair.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Okay.

So we will not be hearing from them, then. You said that we will not be hearing from any more groups on Bill C-21.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

That's correct.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

And now the other witnesses whom we're hearing from next week are on a separate issue, which is an agenda item we had decided upon?

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

That's correct.

We'll turn now to clause-by-clause.

(On clause 1)

Ms. Crowder, would you like to speak to this?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Are you asking me if I want to speak to my amendment?

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Yes, I'm sorry. This is in the package, the first amendment you have put forward, amendment NDP-1.

I just wonder whether you want to make some brief statement about why you brought this forward.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is, as you pointed out, an amendment to clause 1. I think the information is fairly clear from the amendment, but there were a couple of points, in that Six Nations in particular had—

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I'm sorry, are we supposed to be provided a copy of that by the committee?

[A voice]

It was sent out this morning to every office.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I don't have it. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Does everybody have this package on Bill C-21? It lists the different amendments that have been received and organized by the staff.

Ms. Crowder, go ahead.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Part of this came to address the gap between nations that currently have self-government and then have human rights codes built in to their self-government agreements. I believe Nisga'a is a really good example of a self-government agreement that has a first nations human rights code in it.

This was an attempt to address those nations that are in a transition into self-government. The idea was that you would, for example, provide opportunities for first nations to set up some codes that allowed them to do such things as preferential hiring, have programs and services that would benefit first nations on reserve, and give a preference to the members of first nations in the allocation of land resources. It was to protect first nations on reserve in relation to some of the elements that could be open to dispute by people off reserve.

Westbank, for example, although it does not have a self-government agreement, does have a human rights code included in their existing agreement. That would be an example of a nation that does have that kind of agreement while they don't have a self-government agreement in effect.