Evidence of meeting #20 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
We did receive a letter clarifying that....
Go ahead, Mr. Clerk.
May 14th, 2009 / 9:50 a.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Graeme Truelove
They're not sending a list of amendments at this time. They sent a letter explaining that, which is currently in translation.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
After our presentation by the commissioners, you will recall two weeks ago, there was a brief discussion about those items that were non-contentious that we might consider if there were all-party agreement. Essentially, the commissioners undertook to consult with the Cree and Naskapi leadership. They had the opportunity to talk with senior officials. They expressed--in their words:
We all agree that it is important not to jeopardize the early approval of the amendments currently before Parliament, especially given the many years that Cree Nation of Oujé-Bougoumou had waited for its legislative recognition as a Cree Band.
So they're requesting that we proceed with these amendments straightaway and await the next phase of the process.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.
I just want to follow up, because it was an interesting discussion. We're faced with a number of pieces of legislation, and not all go as smoothly as Bill C-28, let me assure you. I'm sure it hasn't been smooth for you in terms of arriving here after decades of negotiation.
My understanding is that Bill C-28 was co-drafted with the Department of Justice. Is that a fair statement?
9:50 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Oujé-Bougoumou First Nation
You can't say, according to your parliamentary system, that outsiders could dare to be involved in the drafting as such. In practice, extremely intensive consultation occurred. What was given was perhaps suggestion as to what the bill might look like. Then later on, I think it got very fuzzy as to whether we were looking at the draft bill or not.
But certainly, every step of the way there were very intensive consultations. This bill, insofar as Oujé-Bougoumou is concerned...and Denis, I think, can speak for the grand council. We knew exactly what was happening. There had to be the correlation with the complementary agreement.
I won't go quite as far as saying it was co-drafting, but certainly there was consultation in respect of the drafting--as it should be, by the way. I can vouch for the fact that the so-called consultation of the federal government and aboriginal peoples in many instances is a failure, but not in this case.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
I see that the 43 years have treated you very well in terms of the language one engenders around that.
Would you also say that you're undertaking this intensive consultation with respect to other pieces of legislation that we can see coming before us maybe in three years or five years? Is that the undertaking?
9:50 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Oujé-Bougoumou First Nation
Let me give you an example. Back in 1984, when the original Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act took place—and I was involved in that, I think, just at around that time—it was a very, very difficult process. There was confidentiality and secrecy and all the rest. Amazingly, it was much more open with Quebec in the legislation related to the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement, which came out in the period from 1976 to 1978.
So I'd say that the federal government is perhaps starting to adopt a new attitude: that in effect, if bills are approving agreements, there's no reason there shouldn't be as close to co-drafting as possible. In practice, I'll say to you that it was co-drafting. In theory and in the law, no, they protected their values and their traditions and parliamentary supremacy, subject to the Constitution. So there was no breach of ethics on the part of Justice. They made very sure of that, and we cooperated with that.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly, Mr. Russell and Mr. Bélanger.
Now we go to Mr. Albrecht for five minutes.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
Mr. O'Reilly, you commented on your 40-plus years of service and then you indicated you're prepared to trod off into other areas. I'm wondering if you're prepared to announce your second career today.
9:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Oujé-Bougoumou First Nation
No, I'm trodding into other big fights with aboriginal peoples. I've been continuing, and it's becoming vast; there are still a lot of unsettled and unresolved issues in Canada, as your committee is well aware.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Namagoose, you referenced in your comments the courteous manner in which the Department of Justice carried out their work and their consultation. As a committee, I can speak for all of us in saying that we're pleased to hear that.
I'm wondering if there are specific examples you can share with the committee that may actually be groundbreaking or foundational stones, which maybe this department or other departments could replicate in the future. Could you give us one or two specific examples of how that consultation experience was positive?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Grand Council of the Crees
Maybe some of the lawyers could speak to this, but the Department of Justice was, as I said, courteous and open, and we had good consultations. The Department of Justice was present at our negotiating table throughout the whole process. So when we arrived at an agreement, we just continued on to the consultation process on the drafting of the bill, so it was a good take-off. When you set a good rapport at the negotiating table, the follow-up in the implementation is going to be successful.
That's the approach we would like to take.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
All right. Let me just ask a question regarding the financial implications of the agreement and the amendments here. I understand that after the agreement is signed, there'll be $100 million within 30 days of royal assent. Could you comment a bit on what the plans are for that?
Further to that, what implications are there as we move five years, ten years, or fifteen years down the road in terms of financial agreements that may be forthcoming from this agreement and future negotiations?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Grand Council of the Crees
The financial portion of the agreement provides resources to the Cree Nation government to carry out Canada's obligations as specified in the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement. We are taking over those obligations. We will use those resources of $1.4 billion to carry out those obligations—and $1 billion has been transferred so far. The money is not there to spend at our discretion; it's there to cover the federal government's obligations.
There will be an additional $100 million to be transferred when this bill is in force, plus another $200 million will be transferred if and when we have a Cree Nation governance agreement and legislation is passed by Parliament. So there will be a further $200 million, which brings it up to $1.4 billion. Those moneys, as I said, are strictly for Canada's obligations in the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Are there any future implications beyond what's specifically talked about in these amendments in Bill C-28?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Grand Council of the Crees
Hopefully, in 18 years there will be another process established to negotiate a successor agreement to this. Hopefully, it will be as successful as this one. This agreement that we are discussing now or have signed recently has a 20-year lifespan. After the 20 years are over, all the obligations that have been transferred to the Cree Nation government will be transferred back to the federal government. We're hoping there's another similar agreement where those obligations will be transferred back to the Cree Nation government with the proper resources to carry out those obligations.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
So just to clarify, there will be future negotiations surrounding financial obligations as well.
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Grand Council of the Crees
The treaty is perpetual; the obligations are perpetual.
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
If you could, just outline briefly as well some of the proposed regional bylaws. I understand that Bill C-28 provides authority for regional bylaws. Could you give ordinary Canadians a snapshot of what some of those might be that would be developed by the Cree Nation?
10 a.m.
Executive Director, Grand Council of the Crees
Well, that remains to be seen, but they're mostly with respect to community development, installing infrastructure, sewer systems, housing, public buildings, regulating public buildings, regulating the police force. On the environmental standards, there's a provision in the agreement that says we can have higher environmental standards than the federal-provincial legislation presently does, so that's a good power to have.
We also promote the welfare of the Crees and the Cree management, which we will do. Of course we have bylaws with respect to financial management and investments. Those are obvious things. Of course we have a mandate to pursue Cree culture, values, and our tradition. That's why I am also able to speak for the Crees here this morning. That's part of the obligations of the Cree Nation.
Thank you.
