Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2010

[John Doyle]

Thank you for the question.

I've no idea what a curveball is. I assume it's a difficult bowling action.

When it comes to ethnic groups within B.C., we have some very large ethnic groups. Again, they would need access to culturally appropriate support services.

I don't think it's done well, at the moment, within the province. There are pockets of excellent work, but I don't have any statistics on it, because that wasn't the focus of our report when we did the work. However, it's an interesting point, and one that I will put on our “to watch” list to see whether or not it could actually be part of any future work we do.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

John.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

Next time we're going to ask a cricket question, I think.

In terms of your comments, Ms. Lavallée, about the holistic approach of family and the role of the parents, what do you think might be the effect of the matrimonial property law that's presently in the House of Commons on the healthfulness of the child?

[National Chief Betty Ann Lavallée]

I think in a lot of cases it's probably going to remove a child from dangerous situations.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

That's great to hear. Thank you.

Going back to our B.C. Auditor General, if money were not on the table and government didn't have money to offer, what one or two things do you think government could do that might enhance things? A lot of our discussion is about funding. You made some comments about funding, and the failure to respond. But if there weren't funding available, what would you be recommending?

[John Doyle]

We made ten recommendations in our report, and I think they adequately cover what government could do. They included a number of things: defining what the standards of care should be; how they should be deployed; the development and bringing up of the skill base of those who are going to deliver those services; preventative measures; and also reporting.

We actually think that the recommendations we have provided would be a good road map for anyone.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Ms. Fraser, may I ask you the same question? Among the things you recommended, what would be the top ones that are independent of money?

[Sheila Fraser]

I doubt, Chair, that there is very much that is totally independent of money, but I really do believe that the question of defining what are comparable services is at the heart of this. And then, of course, after that, I guess “culturally appropriate” would also need to be defined.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Weston, and Mr. Clarke.

Mr. Doyle, a curveball is from major league baseball. It's a tough pitch to hit. Mr. Clarke was trying to put you in a sticky wicket, sir.

Let's go to Mr. Bagnell for a short question, followed by Mr. Lévesque.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I'm a little surprised by your comment on the matrimonial bill, in that we've had such huge push-back from huge numbers of aboriginal people, men and women, that they're not part of the design and not consulted enough. But I don't want to get into that right now. It would take all my time.

I want to ask, from the Auditor General and from the B.C. auditor, if you've seen in your study any examples of good cultural practices or good cultural attitudes that are appropriate. Just to give some background, we had a chief in the Yukon recently who all of a sudden had a big press conference and said he wasn't going to allow the territorial workers on site because of this lack of consultation. It blew up; it just wasn't working. If you don't have workers on site, then the kids are in danger, so it's a disastrous situation.

The second piece of background, of course, is that we know this is a collective society we're dealing with, as opposed to an individualized society.

The third point is that they're not all the same. There are different cultures right across the country with aboriginal people. Inuit is not the same as Blackfoot, or Mi'kmaq.

So are there any examples from B.C. or from the Auditor General on good cultural attitudes or appropriate practices that others might use?

[John Doyle]

Thank you.

We met lots of talented people who were trying to make a difference within their communities. Whilst we didn't include a list in our report, it would certainly be fair to say that there were a lot of dedicated people who were trying to do the right thing. They tended to be local individuals who were working with locals who they knew, and within cultures that they were very familiar with.

[Jerome Berthelette]

Mr. Chairman, I would echo the comments of the B.C. Auditor General.

I would just bring to the committee's attention one particular community that we had a chance to visit in Alberta. They had taken on the responsibility for adoptions, which is not often a responsibility that is taken on by the first nations child and family service agencies. They had taken on this adoption responsibility. They had tied it in to the way that adoptions were culturally, the way they used to be done in the community. In essence, they had updated the cultural practice and had become a model for many communities across the country who go and visit with that particular community and seek that community's advice about how to go about doing culturally appropriate adoptions.

Unfortunately, I can't remember right at this moment the name of the community, but if the members would like, I could share that with you.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

That's it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

Mr. Lévesque, you have the floor.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Lavallée, earlier we raised the issue of adopting and implementing Bill C-3, which has to do with matrimonial affairs. Larry told us a few things about it. Now, you startled me when you said that this would help the children be more secure.

Most of the community members who came to meet us expressed their concern regarding this almost crazy reflex that many people will have to require that their membership to first nations communities be recognized. They also discussed the growing population in the communities. This is a great and worrisome concern for the communities.

You are already short of funds with regard to help for children. How will the children be better protected? Could you explain this to us?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I should point out that this line of questioning really isn't on the orders of the day. I recognize that Mr. Weston already took us down that path, so I think it's only right to allow Mr. Lévesque the opportunity to respond. It's not really on today's topic, but it's borderline, in the range.

Go ahead, Ms. Lavallée, if you wish to respond to the question.

[National Chief Betty Ann Lavallée]

The fact of the matter is that you do have family breakups where children are involved. Depending on the family dynamic, you do have families who have intermarried: some are aboriginal, some are non-aboriginal. You have some from other reserves who have married in.

In some cases, as in every segment of life or society, you have violent family situations. I'm speaking to the violence where normally, in a situation, mother and child are removed from the home and the abuser gets to stay in the home. I think that's totally unfair. There's been enough gender imbalance on reserve, which is not our culturally appropriate way for us, and I'd like to see it stop.

I believe the MRP bill is going to give some of the women and children some dignity and self-worth.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Monsieur Lévesque.

To the witnesses, I appreciate your attention this afternoon. Thank you for joining us for these two hours.

For our witnesses in British Columbia, I guess you can go to lunch now. You're just about at that point. We're almost at the end of our day, so we'll thank you for your attention.

Members, we are back here on the same subject on Wednesday afternoon. I would remind you that you have until this Wednesday to get in your list of witnesses for our next study on specific claims.

Mr. Bagnell, you have a question?

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Well, do you remember that point I wanted to discuss about the witness?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have that subcommittee meeting on Thursday, and we can work that in. We haven't considered the list of witnesses yet. Once that is established, we'll be able to answer that question, but I'm sure if you talk to your critic we should be able to get that.

I think that's all we have....

Pardon me, members, there's one more thing, if you could just hold your fire for a moment.

It looks as if we will be able to table the northern economic development report on Thursday during routine proceedings, shortly after 10 o'clock. Subject to the concurrence of the committee, we have tentatively booked a press conference in the Charles Lynch Press Room from 10:45 to 11:15.

I just need to get the committee to confirm that it is a go. We discussed this at the last meeting. If there are any objections, please say so now.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Can we do this in camera?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We can, certainly. We're just about out of time, but....

Okay, we'll suspend the meeting momentarily to let our witnesses get under way, and then we'll resume.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]