Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues, we're going to call to order this eighth meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Today we have the privilege of having our minister come back. He was here last week.

We appreciate your becoming a regular fixture at this committee and always being willing to come here.

Minister, I'm going to turn it over to you immediately for your opening statement. We only have one hour with you this morning. If you want to introduce your officials—it's great to see them here as well—I'll turn it over to you immediately and we'll hear from you. Then, of course, in our second hour we have another full hour.

Minister, please go ahead.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Joining me this morning are four officials who worked very hard to produce this bill and meet the target effective date of April 1, 2014.

I will ask them to introduce themselves briefly and to tell you about their duties. We could start with Ms. Isaak.

[Paula Isaak, Director General, Natural Resources and Environment Branch, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Good morning. I'm Paula Isaak, director general for natural resources and environment.

[Tara Shannon, Director, Resource Policy and Programs Directorate, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Good morning. I'm Tara Shannon, director of resource policy and programs.

[Wayne Walsh, Director, Northwest Territories Devolution Negotiations, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Good morning. I'm Wayne Walsh. I'm the director of devolution and major program transfers with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs.

[Tom Isaac, Senior Counsel, Negotiations, Northern Affairs and Federal Interlocutor, Department of Justice]

Good morning. I'm Tom Isaac, with the Department of Justice.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

When things are going well, I'm the reason, and when things are going badly, they are to blame, of course.

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to discuss Bill C-15, the Northwest Territories Devolution Act. I appreciate the invitation to appear on the proposed legislation, which I had the pleasure of introducing in the House and speaking to at second reading earlier this week.

Bill C-15, the Northwest Territories Devolution Act is the final step for the federal government in devolving powers to the Northwest Territories. This legislation would bring into effect the Northwest Territories Lands and Resources Devolution Agreement, which would provide the people of the Northwest Territories with the ability to make their own decisions about lands and resources in their own backyard.

I had the privilege of signing the final Devolution Agreement on behalf of the Government of Canada in Inuvik this past June, along with the Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories, as well as five of our aboriginal partners in the Northwest Territories—Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the Northwest Territory Métis Nation, Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated, Gwich'in Tribal Council and Tlicho Government.

As you know, we continue to work toward a target effective date of April 1, 2014, as requested by the Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories and agreed to by the Prime Minister and all parties to the Devolution Agreement.

Bill C-15 would also modernize and improve the regulatory regime in the Northwest Territories by amending the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, the Northwest Territories Waters Act and the Territorial Lands Act.

As I just said, Bill C-15 would also modernize and improve the regulatory regime in the Northwest Territories by amending three specific acts: the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, the Northwest Territories Waters Act, and the Territorial Lands Act.

I wish to assure the members of this committee that we are confident this bill, as a whole, would ensure that a modern, efficient, and effective land and water regulatory system is in place when the Government of the Northwest Territories assumes increased responsibilities in respect of lands, waters, and resources by the target devolution date, effective April 1, 2014.

Our government and the Government of the Northwest Territories agree that changes brought about by Bill C-15 would ensure that northerners benefit fully from the transfer of management over lands and resources post-April 2014.

Members of this committee are already well versed, I believe, in the benefits of regulatory improvements such as the ones proposed in Bill C-15. I say this because not long ago we reviewed together—and you reviewed in detail—Bill C-47, the Northern Jobs and Growth Act, which implemented reforms to Nunavut's regulatory regime, among other pieces of legislation.

It is vitally important, we submit, that the Northwest Territories not fall behind the other two territories, or the rest of the country for that matter, in its regulatory system. The need for regulatory reform becomes even more apparent as territories acquire increased authorities and responsibilities. An effective, responsive, and modern regulatory regime ensures that the territories—specifically, in the case of Bill C-15, the Northwest Territories—will be poised to benefit fully from increased resource development and local management of lands and resources resulting from devolution.

The introduction of a modern regime in the Northwest Territories will also meet the needs of investors, developers, and employers who must rely on a clear and predictable review and assessment process to remain competitive in a global marketplace given the high cost of business in the north.

Just last week the Government of the Northwest Territories released their first ever mineral development strategy, which I recommend all members to read and look at. It speaks to the tremendous potential of the Northwest Territories to become an economic powerhouse and to the wealth of mineral resources in the territory.

The Government of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Chairman, further states that in order to address investment challenges and unlock the potential, they need a solid regulatory framework in place. If I may, I'd like to quote Minister Ramsay from the Government of the Northwest Territories, who said “Restoring a positive investment climate in the NWT is critical if we are to discover new deposits and establish new mines...”.

The legislative amendments proposed in the Northwest Territories Devolution Act respond to these criticisms that have been raised for many years now, and will position the Northwest Territories to take advantage of the many economic opportunities in the region in a sustainable and responsible manner.

As many of you know, five years ago our government appointed Mr. Neil McCrank to look into these very issues and identify potential reforms for northern regulatory regimes. Based on his recommendations, our government announced the action plan to improve northern regulatory regimes.

The action plan was launched to make improvements to the existing regulatory regimes across the north to ensure that they are strong, effective, efficient, and predictable by making reviews of projects more predictable and timely; reducing duplication for project reviews; strengthening environmental protection; and finally, respecting consultation obligations with aboriginal groups.

Consultations on the action plan to improve northern regulatory regimes, including legislative amendments to the regulatory regime in the territories, have been ongoing since 2010.

In addition, our government appointed John Pollard to consult with aboriginal organizations on the possibility of restructuring the land and water boards in the Mackenzie Valley. Since that time, Mr. Pollard has held over 50 consultation meetings with aboriginal groups and organizations, co-management boards, and industry.

As you can see, we didn't arrive at the bill before you overnight. Rather, the bill you see before you today is the product of extensive consultations. These consultations involved all of the boards affected by the proposed amendments, because as you all know, some boards are indeed affected. The consultations involved industry stakeholders and representatives of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Aboriginal organizations with and without settled land claims in the territory, as well as those with relevant trans-boundary claims in the territory also participated. In all, 24 aboriginal organizations were invited to participate in the technical consultation sessions and funds were made available to assist them in doing so.

As the consultation progressed, additional policy issues and other pieces of legislation were also considered. Eventually, final legislative proposals took shape and these became the focus of technical consultation sessions ending in October of this year. Bill C-15, Northwest Territories Devolution Act, is the result of this process.

At these sessions, some participants expressed specific concerns about the proposed amendments, and the Government of Canada carefully considered these comments in the bill before you and incorporated a number of these recommended measures as a direct result of those technical sessions. For example, Bill C-15 requires that the chair of the restructured Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board consider including at least one regional nominee on smaller committees when reviewing development wholly within those regions. This amendment, first proposed by one of the aboriginal organizations that participated in the consultations, is an example of the collaboration, feedback, and accommodation that produced Bill C-15.

Another recommendation led to the redrafting of development certificate provisions to further align the proposal with similar provisions in the Nunavut Planning and Project Assessment Act, NPPAA. I think it will be evident to the committee that adoption of the Northwest Territories Devolution Act is imperative to empower the people of the Northwest Territories to shape their own future, and will ensure the long-term economic prosperity of the territory and indeed of all of Canada.

Mr. Chair, I want to thank you, and I will do my best to answer members' questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Minister, we want to thank you for your opening statement.

We'll begin the rounds of questioning with Mr. Bevington for the first seven minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for appearing before us today. I'll start by saying that in September of this year I wrote you a letter asking the department to consider separating these two bills and presenting them to Parliament. The only answer I received was that of the bill arriving in Parliament two days ago.

This issue of these two bills proceeding at the same time has caused a lot of division and confusion in the Northwest Territories, and certainly many of those first nations groups that you mentioned were supporting devolution now are not supporting the recommendations made about the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. That's a statement.

I want to talk a little about some of the things that you talked about. I want to stick with the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, because it is the contentious part of this legislation. You said in your speech yesterday, “For those who may be skeptical about what this bill can achieve, look no further than the Yukon to see the benefits that devolution and a modern regulatory system can have on an economy”.

Fair enough, but in the Yukon, the process of assessment approval of course depends on whose land the proposed project is on. If it's under the jurisdiction of the territorial government, then that body makes the decision on the approval process. In Bill C-15 we have a problem that already existed in the environmental audit for the Northwest Territories in 2010, when they said that most of the problems with environmental assessments were showing up when getting approval from the minister. In Bill C-15, the minister of the crown is the one who continues to make the approvals on environmental assessments under the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act.

So now we have a situation whereby one government is in charge of land and administration, environmental issues, and the federal government retains full control over the decision-making for development projects.

Can you explain how this is going to modernize the system when all you've done is change it very slightly?

It's certainly not in the model put forward 10 years ago for the Yukon territory.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

With all due respect to the statement of information you just made, the Yukon board is a federal board, just like it will be in this proposal. For your information, in case you don't know, the appointments to the Yukon boards are made by this minister, just as proposed to happen with the Northwest Territories.

I've heard you make statements about the impact of these amendments. In all fairness to the proposal and to the people who have listened to you, what you have omitted to tell them is that Bill C-15 implements a devolution agreement that was negotiated with the Government of the Northwest Territories and the aboriginal parties over a long period of time.

Just as in every other province and territory, the federal government will keep the power to participate and do environmental assessments, because we will still hold lands and we must have the power to protect the best interests of Canada. If we did not do it for the Northwest Territories, it would be the only jurisdiction in the country where the federal government would be deprived of that power.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Minister, we're not speaking of the federal lands; we're speaking of all the lands.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Let me complete my answer.

The proposal before this committee, before the House, before Parliament, is fully endorsed by the legitimate Government of the Northwest Territories.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Minister, you know that the federal lands remain under federal control. But for the lands in the Yukon that are under territorial control, those decisions are made by territorial governments. Under Bill C-15 the development approvals for the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board will go through the minister of the crown. Is that not the case?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

When you talk about the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the role of the federal government, all responsible ministers will make decisions under C-15, and that includes the territorial minister. What you don't seem to grasp is that the devolution agreement has provided an instrument whereby the federal minister, the Government of Canada, will delegate to a minister of the territorial government certain powers under the devolution agreement. It was agreed to in chapter 3 of the devolution agreement.

If you look specifically at 3.17, you will find that Canada will delegate to the Government of the Northwest Territories the ability to approve the issuance of certain water licences; hold money as security to make sure that land and water users follow the rules; choose land and water inspectors; keep track of the effects of land and water use over time; and coordinate environmental assessment decisions under the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act.

In addition to what was already agreed—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Minister, if you want to talk out my time, that's fine by you but it's not fine by me.

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You don't want the answer?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I don't want you to talk out the clock. I have a lot of questions to ask on this particular bill. You realize that. This is a complex affair. We don't need to obfuscate the proceedings. I think these are important issues to the people in the north.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Bevington. Your time is now up.

We'll go to Mr. Leef for the next round of questions.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for your presentation.

We've already heard that the Yukon Territory has enjoyed the benefits of devolution for almost 10 years now. You've been in our territory and indeed across the north. It was my pleasure to have you as a guest there this summer and then travel with you right across the Arctic. We both heard from folks—stakeholders, groups, organizations—as we travelled throughout the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

Could you highlight a few of the benefits of the devolution agreement and then perhaps take the opportunity to respond to some of the things Mr. Bevington said about applying the positive benefits of the Yukon experience and devolution to the benefits the Northwest Territories will enjoy when this agreement is eventually signed?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

To exemplify the benefits of devolution and an effective and efficient regulatory regime, one needs only to look at what has transpired in the Yukon over the last decade. Since the implementation of its current regulatory regime and devolution in 2003, Yukon has been successful in maximizing the social and economic benefits of resource development, while minimizing the environmental impacts. As a result, the gross domestic product of Yukon has grown every year for the past nine years and exceeded Canada's rate of national annual growth eight times out of ten. Last year the territory's total gross domestic product was $2.5 billion, up more than $1 billion since devolution.

In a speech at Canada's North Summit last month, the Premier of Yukon, Darrell Pasloski, described Yukon's success:

Frameworks like YESAA [the Yukon Environmental and Socio-economic Assessment Act] enable us to harness the momentum of the past decade and turn it into sustainable economic growth, with the confidence that such growth will not occur at the expense of the territory’s environmental integrity.

I think that says it all.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Absolutely. Thank you.

Would you see this as the natural evolution of governance in the north? Yukon led the way 10 years ago. Then under conditions of umbrella final agreements and self-government agreements with first nations, Yukon has really been progressive and evolving. Do you see this as really the natural evolution, the next step that needs to be taken for the Northwest Territories?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

No question. Northerners have long awaited the fruition of their goal of having local control over their governance and resources similar to that enjoyed by the provinces. We must acknowledge that this process began nearly 60 years ago, with successive devolution agreements covering many other aspects of local governance, including health care, education, and social services—and the bill before you today has been in the works for over 25 years.

Our government is proud to finally be able to deliver on this important commitment not only to the residents of the Northwest Territories, but also to Canadians. You will remember that when Prime Minister Harper took office in 2006, shortly thereafter, in 2007, the government came up with its northern strategy, with its four pillars. One of those important pillars is governance, and what you have before you here today is a milestone in the execution of the northern strategy, which is devolving to the people of the Northwest Territories control over their land and resources.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

You mentioned that this has been in the works for a long time. Other governments have tried to secure devolution agreements and have been unable to do so. Devolution certainly has signalled a shift in positive economic growth and self-sustainability in our territory in the Yukon. You mentioned this is something that has been agreed to by the legitimate government in the Northwest Territories, in consultation with aboriginal and first nations people.

While the member from Western Arctic may not like it himself, this is an agreement that is driven by the people of the Northwest Territories, for the people of the Northwest Territories. From your experience with past devolution agreements with the Yukon, I'm wondering if this agreement is fixed, firm, and absolute. Or is it a living, working, and growing kind of agreement where the territories can ebb and flow and change it over time to meet their needs? Is this just a fixed and firm, absolute deal?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

No. This is in the way you formerly put it: this is another step. The agreement clearly provides for us to review the operation of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act within five years and to take stock of the progress we've made then. This is a continuing relationship between the federal government and the Northwest Territories government, which will evolve. With the benefit of this strong, efficient, effective regulatory regime that Bill C-15 will hopefully put in place, the inhabitants of the Northwest Territories will greatly benefit from this devolution of responsibility to themselves so that they finally become the architects of their own economic and social development.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.