Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on April 5th, 2022

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I think you're talking about some creative things you have done to create the future you have, but you have a generation that's at risk, and you need to do something as quickly as possible, right?

[Sarah Silva]

Absolutely, yes, and we have. Over the last two years we've been developing 200 units.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You did mention the challenges of the Indian Act.

[Sarah Silva]

Yes. One challenge we're dealing with right now is that under the Indian Act we have to do referendum votes called land designations in order to be able to get leasing or financing. It's a barrier because it's a huge process. We have to go to the community and get them to vote. There are tons of legal costs and it's very timely.

At the end of the day we did it, and of course we got a yes vote. The need is great. It was 90% to move forward, but the community was asking why we were even doing this because it's crazy.

There is a section of the Indian Act—section 18(2)—that is used to build community infrastructure, such as stadiums, schools and things like that, I believe. It would be great to see social housing—not profit housing—built under this section of the Indian Act because it is definitely a huge barrier.

I don't know why we have to have such a restraint on developing housing within our own community.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

That's a big question that we'd like to see resolved.

Thank you.

Professor Metallic, you mentioned a really grassroots process, yet we have two levels of government.

Where's the feasibility in what seems like a very natural, grassroots building project of lumber mills and all the pieces that go with it? Where are the roadblocks and how can we resolve them?

[Prof. Naiomi Metallic]

I was talking to a colleague of mine who works with a lot of first nations in New Brunswick. It seems that they're interested in moving some of this stuff forward, but there hasn't been a lot of uptake from the provinces in this or other areas. I think that is a big roadblock.

As I tried to convey, I do think there could be a role for Canada here, whether that is more related to funding or providing supports in terms of capacity development and infrastructure dollars. I also think we've seen more recent examples of Canada starting to legislate more in the area in terms of accommodating indigenous rights, like Bill C-92 and the indigenous language rights bill, for example.

I do think the possibility is there. There are authorities to support that if the need to go that far is required, but probably a very good starting point would be looking at the infrastructure and capacity support.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

This means going through a co-operative process, looking at the federal department, working with the province and getting to it. If you're talking about the legal process, we're talking years.

[Prof. Naiomi Metallic]

Yes. There are different ways to get at this. I think that co-operative process is a faster possibility.

I don't necessarily want to preclude the legislative process. You are correct that it does take a long time, but a good starting point certainly will have to be working with the provinces. A lot could be done with Canada working with first nations now.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Mr. Weiler, you have six minutes.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank Professor Metallic and Ms. Silva for joining our committee meeting today to talk about a hugely important topic from coast to coast to coast.

My first question is for Hiyam Housing.

Through you, Mr. Chair, to Ms. Silva, what objectives led Squamish to set up Hiyam Housing? You spoke a little bit to this in your opening, but what were the main objectives of setting up a separate, non-profit housing authority to address some of the housing challenges?

[Sarah Silva]

I was actually one of the founding members of Hiyam Housing. I've worked in the non-profit sector for over 10 years now.

I think they're doing some really amazing things here in our province, especially BC Housing. They've started to develop and fund housing on reserve, which was always a federal jurisdiction that the provincial government doesn't traditionally fund. However, they have stepped up and they have started funding.

Part of getting access to that funding meant that you had to be an incorporated non-profit. That was, of course, a little bit of a draw. It was also, like you said before, the ability to separate operations and have their own governance and do that whole part of it as well.

It was also the housing crisis that we were dealing with. We knew that the current model—the single-family home— was never going to meet the need. We knew we had to build up. We needed to do more high density and a variety of different types. Before, we were only doing single-family homes and it was really by date of application. There were all these other people, like people with disabilities or who may need support with addictions, or youth or students. All these target populations were being left out of the current housing program.

The model for Hiyam Housing was to make sure that within the community, every need is being met, essentially. That was part of our mandate. I think so far it's been working really well.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I'd like to speak just a little more to the experience thus far for Hiyam Housing, knowing that it is a fairly young organization.

It was great to be able to participate in the announcement just a couple of months ago with the rapid housing initiative to deliver some much-needed supportive housing projects on the North Shore, as well as in Squamish. This has been part of a bigger program to address urban indigenous housing across B.C.

I was hoping you could maybe just speak a little bit more to the experience in the few years since Hiyam Housing has been set up and where you found the most success.

[Sarah Silva]

It's about partnerships, definitely. We have a really strong partnership with CMHC, with BC Housing and a variety of different non-profits. Everybody is coming to the table with something, and it's a partnership moving forward. We've had a lot of support, and building on those relationships has been really great for us.

The rapid housing project we're really excited about, because we've never had this type of housing in our community. It's supportive housing. We can bring members home. We can make sure that they're getting the supports they need, and hopefully we can move them along into safer and more affordable housing.

We're really excited about it. Partnerships and relationships have been really important to our success. We also partner with other non-profits because we're new. We bring in other really large, successful non-profits throughout B.C. to help us build up our own capacity and operations. That's been great as well. We have a lot of support with that.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

You've already mentioned a few recommendations up to this point. I was wondering if you could provide recommendations for maybe other first nations as well, on how this model can best be used to address housing challenges in indigenous communities.

[Sarah Silva]

I think the one-size-fits-all approach to different first nations doesn't necessarily work. We're all very unique and different in our needs. We're very much in an urban setting, so that high-density approach does work for us, but it won't necessarily work for a community up north. You need to look at each community and see what the issues and concerns are. I think, at the end of the day, when you speak to the first nations, they know what they're dealing with. They've dealt with housing for 30 years. They understand how to move forward.

For us, like I said before, the housing authority model did work. The non-profit is working in the sense that we can do a lot of our own planning. We can do the strategic planning, and we can access a lot more funding that wasn't really available to a first nation. If it is a first nation that's struggling with housing, I would just recommend looking at the different models that are out there and reaching out to make connections, to see what's working and what's not working.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

Maybe just quickly you could speak to some of the work you're doing on renovations.

[Sarah Silva]

We currently don't have a renovation program. It's definitely a big need within our community, but we started the home loan program last year, and we're looking to expand on it in different phases. We're going to be looking to do a renovation program in the next few years.

I think that gets really exciting for our community because we have a lot of single-family homes where the bottom units were never fully developed because there was never really a lot of funding to do that, so you have a lot of family members who are living in basements that don't have flooring or proper insulation and things like that. What we think the renovation program can do is help our membership be able to renovate their basement suites, and then they could have their family members or they could have their aunties and their grandmas living in these units in a safer and healthier environment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Weiler.

Mrs. Gill, you have six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank our witnesses, including Professor Metallic, whom I have had the opportunity to hear from on several occasions. Once again, I listened to her today with great interest, as I did Ms. Silva.

First, I have a question for Ms. Silva about needs.

Ms. Silva, you said that one‑size‑fits‑all solutions don't work because they don't meet the specific needs of each nation, of course, but you also said the same thing about the housing itself. From what we have heard about that on this committee, the needs seem to be relatively the same, as it's the same type of housing.

Do current programs and policies help first nations obtain housing that meets other needs that they might have, in an equitable manner?

I'm thinking, for example, of health issues and multigenerational housing. We know how important elders are to first nations.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, please.

[Sarah Silva]

There are a lot of diverse housing needs in first nations communities. We're working on doing a housing needs assessment right now and it's something we're trying to seek out funding for. I think that would really help the different first nations to understand what the actual need is. We have done a few studies on the need, and elders of course are the priority. Then we have youth and working families as our priority, but that could be different in other communities. We currently don't have housing for our seniors. For our seniors, unfortunately there's not a lot of funding for them to come home and get the long-term support they need in the different housing model types.

Taking a bit of a flexible approach to the housing programs and policies would be great in the sense that, again, everybody's need is very different. However, I think what's missing in a lot of the different programs that are coming out is the support piece. It could be housing just for the structure, but we need to come home and do healing from all the generations of trauma. How are we going to get to home ownership and intergenerational wealth if we don't deal with the current issues we're facing within our communities? We need those supports that are devolved into those programs. Along with that, what I'm finding with a lot of the different programs as well is that they're designed to address the income levels of non-indigenous communities, meaning that CMHC might say the rents are based on the CMHC average for North Vancouver, but the CMHC average for North Vancouver does not reflect the income levels of our community and the need in our community.

I think it's just about taking an approach of, possibly, flexibility and building in infrastructure, and then of course possibly having indigenous people at the table when you're creating housing programs or working on policy.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Silva, for your testimony about tailoring programs and policies to suit real, concrete needs. So, it's about including people from the various communities.

I'd also like to ask Professor Metallic about what she said earlier on the Mi'kmaq nation and the opportunities available to them.

Professor Metallic, do you know of any similar rights that other nations might have?

Of course, it would vary a great deal. In the cases of the Mi'kmaq, where you are from, it's about the forest and wood. It wouldn't be the same in Nunavut, of course. It's a very complex issue.

[Prof. Naiomi Metallic]

I don't know of any other similar cases brought before the courts by other first nations. I know there was a case out West brought by an individual who had built a small hunting cabin. However, I believe that a number of communities like the Mi'kmaq and Wolastoqiyik have used wood and the court recognized that they had the right to do so.

The Government of Canada could recognize that right, much like it has recognized the right to self-governance for first nations when it comes to children and family. That's why I talk about how important legislation is. Through legislation, it would be possible to recognize these rights for various indigenous groups. There are other ways to do it, and the court even encouraged governments in Canada to take further steps to recognize constitutional rights and keep indigenous groups from having to go to court.

To answer your question, I feel it's possible. I also feel that a number of other first nations groups located further south in Canada have used wood in much the same way we have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Idlout now has the floor.

Ms. Idlout, you have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

It's good to see you.

If you can reply, I will ask you both this question. The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act received royal assent in June 2021. The law requires the Government of Canada to take all measures necessary to ensure that the laws of Canada are consistent with the declaration.

In consultation—