Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What I mean is that I was dealing with Ms. Idlout's amendment, and I was going to challenge the chair on Ms. Idlout's amendment. Before I knew it, we were on to voting on clause 7. If that's how we're going to do this, I will adjust my actions accordingly. However, there ought to be an ability for me to say that I would like some clarification on clause 7 between the movement of clause 7 and the vote on clause 7.

Regardless of whether I have an amendment for it.... There are several clauses that I don't have amendments on in this bill, but I was looking forward to having the officials here, so that I could say, “Hey, what does this mean?” When we get to the last few pages of this bill—we had no witnesses who addressed any of the things on the last two pages of the bill—I'm looking forward to asking the officials about those things.

How am I going to do this, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Let me respond to that.

Everybody is working from the same road map as I am, which is the agenda that was distributed to all members. This clearly lays out the order that we're going through things.

As we go through it—I'm a bit behind right now—I'm ticking off what we're doing. If you also mark off where we're at, you'll know what's coming next.

What I'm looking for as I introduce the item is any indication of people wanting to speak. If I don't see any, then I move right on to the order of business, which is the vote.

You'll see what's coming up next. I would simply say, if you want to speak to it, get my attention and we'll get you on the list. I have two clerks helping me out to make sure that we're covering online and in the room. If we see a hand up, then you'll be put on the list and you'll be recognized.

That is how we're working through this. If there was any confusion, I apologize for that, but that is the process to try to move us through clause-by-clause.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Can I quickly speak to that point of order, Chair?

It happened to me earlier as well. There wasn't that little gap... I'm not saying that we're going to speak to everything here. We want this to move along and hopefully wrap it up.

At the same time, as Mr. Viersen was saying, it's immediate. When you say that you look around the room for people to talk, there's no opportunity. There's no question about whether anyone wants to talk. It's bang and then call the vote on the clause. I think that's what Arnold is saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

If you look at what's next, we're on clause 8. We have two amendments here and then a “Shall clause 8 carry?” That will be the order we go through it.

The first thing I'm going to do is call CPC-3.2. When there is an amendment, I'll be asking for the member to move it. That's a good time for others who want to get on the speaking list to raise their hands.

If it's a clause where there are no amendments, for instance, clause 16, if I don't have anybody as we move into that, I will simply say, “Will clause 16 carry?”

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I would just point out that, in the last one, I was attempting to challenge the chair on the ruling you made on Ms. Idlout's amendment. I was attempting to do that.

I said I had a challenge to the chair. I don't think I was out of order on that. By the time I said that, you had already moved clause 7. It was pointed out to me that we had moved on to clause 7. I said that I would challenge the chair anyway—

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

—but that was not my intention. My intention was not to challenge the chair on clause 7. My intention was to challenge the chair on Ms. Idlout's amendment, so that we could have a discussion. I would have liked to hear from her what the logic was on her amendment.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair...?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I would say that, in that case, it was ruled out of order. It was inadmissible. I gave the explanation for it.

I'm just going to go to the point of order, and then we'll come back.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes, 100%, and I challenged the chair on that, not the clause.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll come back to you, Mr. Viersen. Just give me a second to go to Mr. Battiste.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

It's on repetition, and it is on relevance. We've heard this, and you've ruled on it. It seems to be repetition.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I will say, Mr. Viersen, that I hear the concerns you have raised, so I will endeavour to make sure that people know where we're at and that there is an opportunity. We want to have good discussions and good input by members.

I also have an interest in moving this legislation forward and the review of it too, as we've been asked by the three Métis nations.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We also want to have due process.

We'll go to your point of order.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Chair, that is not your job—unless you don't like being the chair. If you want to sit on that side, then it's your job to push legislation through. It is the government's job to do that. However, when you sit in the chair, you're an official of Parliament, and it's not your job to push legislation through. You said that. It is not your job.

It is your job—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

It is to facilitate the—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

—to be the chair for this committee. You are the chair for all of us. You are to operate the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I am well aware of the role of the chair, yes. Thank you.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

You just said—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Can we go to the point of order?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

—that you are trying to push this legislation through.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We have legislation that has been forwarded to us—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

That is not your job, Mr. Chair. Your job is to facilitate the meeting—