Evidence of meeting #17 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was innovation.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cate McCready  Vice-President, External Affairs, BIOTECanada
Joanne Harack  Co-Chair, Public Affairs Committee, BIOTECanada
Dirk Pilat  Head, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development
Barry Gander  Executive Vice-President, Canadian Advanced Technology Alliance
Eli Fathi  Vice-President, Commercialization, Canadian Advanced Technology Alliance

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Yes, I would like to acknowledge the comments by my colleague that the Liberals did have a $1.5 billion fund, but I believe it was just announced; it never was funded. But what we did with the softwood lumber agreement was that there was $5 billion returned. It wasn't a loan; it was actual cash back to the companies.

We do have to look at this, because it is a substantial amount of money. Again, the Bloc did support us on the softwood lumber agreement. And by doing a $1.5 billion reimbursable contribution, some type of loans, it would put Canada's international agreements at jeopardy to do something like that.

I want to point out to the committee as well that I had the opportunity to sit in the international trade committee yesterday, which had a very similar motion, and one of the Liberal colleagues made a very good point—I believe it was Mr. Maloney. This has been put forth in four different committees, and it calls for adoption and report back to the House, which would mean three hours of debate, so 12 hours altogether to debate this motion. His comment was that would be an irresponsible thing to do in the House of Commons. So in that committee, that was totally removed from their motion.

I'd just like to point that out.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Monsieur Arthur.

12:50 p.m.

Independent

André Arthur Independent Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

If we look at this issue from a national perspective, no doubt we can come up with some very skilful interpretations and analyses, although they may be somewhat disconnected from reality. I represent the riding of Portneuf—Jacques Cartier. Last Thursday, AbitibiBowater, a pulp and paper company operating in the heart of my riding, shut down a plant that employed several hundred people. The plant workforce had been trimmed in recent years, to its current level of about 250 workers.

The company announced that the plant closure was a temporary measure. What we are likely hearing is a lie told by a company that wants to continue its forestry operations and make people believe at the same time that the plant can one day re-open.

The situation is not very reassuring and personally, I am torn by Ms. Brunelle's motion. We would like to help everyone that is having problems. That would be much simpler. However, if I look at what is happening in my riding to a company that has shamelessly gone into debt over the years by responding inappropriately to problems instead of improving...

The union has always taken a very hard line at the bargaining table, putting the company in a situation where it could not make changes for the better. Pouring federal dollars into the plant would only confirm to everyone that there is no solution, now or ever. Politicians, however, will want to buy some time.

To persist in the belief that helping huge multinationals and hard-line unions like the CSN will make things better down the road will only make things worse, at least for the company that shut down its plant in my riding last Thursday.

I would much prefer to sit back and let these officials work it out as adults and come to the realization that the forestry sector in Quebec is in a crisis situation. Suprisingly, the crisis is much worse for large multinationals and large unions than it is for small companies with about 100 employees. At present, almost all of these small companies are thriving because they have adapted to new market conditions. The large companies that have resisted change and the large unions lacking in humanity are responsible for the prevailing situation in my riding.

I would much rather wait until the funds become available to help those who are truly in need of assistance in the face of the crisis in the forestry sector, that is communities whose economic future depends on the threatened activity, instead of giving money to spoiled children who will always demand more and who will never resolve their problems if we continue to give them handouts.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Just to remind members, it's coming up to one o'clock. I was told by members to have this finished by one. There are two different directions: members say to finish a meeting by one, but they keep adding their names to the list.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

We have no more.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I have Mr. Van Kesteren, Madame Brunelle, Ms. McDonough, Mr. Stanton, and Monsieur Vincent.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to add that this study of the service sector and the previous study of the industry produced a wonderful result that we can all be very proud of. It has been said, and it bears to be repeated again, that the solutions to our problem are not in government intervention.

If we go back and take the blues for a recent witness, I think it was Mr. Lazar of the Forest Products Association of Canada--I think this was his name, I don't recall--I must confess that when he came here, sitting on the government side, I thought, boy, we're going to get hammered, and I was fully prepared for that. But if we check his testimony, his suggestion and his wish from the forestry industry was, get out of the way. He specifically said, there's going to be some bloodletting, we need you, we will survive. It's going to be tough, and when we come out of this, we're going to be that much tougher. Check the records. Check what the man said.

The other thing he said--and this is striking, and I think it builds on what Mr. Arthur was saying, and some of my other colleagues mentioned it as well--is that the problems they're experiencing in the forestry industry today are direct results of government intervention and governments pushing them to set up shop in areas where it wasn't economically feasible to do so.

This runs contrary to what we've been hearing time and time again from all of our witnesses, from the service industry and from the industry leaders. They're looking for a level playing field. They're looking for lower taxes. They looking for harmonization. Those are the buzzwords. Those are the things that we're hearing from them. They're not asking for government money and bailouts. They recognize that as a thing of the past that's been counterproductive.

Should we suggest that we go down that path again? We're going down a path where, as a committee, our studies are finding--

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. McTeague.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'm very sorry to interrupt Mr. Van Kesteren on this one. It is one o'clock. Several members indicated that they had to be at meetings at one o'clock, including the chair.

Mr. Chair, I think we have a bit of a compromise. I'd like to have a chance to discuss it. If it would be acceptable to Madame Brunelle,

I would like us to defer this question until tomorrow or until our next meeting. I know everyone has to leave at 1 p.m. That's not the problem. I merely suggested that we delete the words after “manufacturing sector”.

--and this is on the same point of order--

right up to the words “and that the adoption of this motion be reported to the House at the earliest opportunity”.

1 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

In that case, the motion would read as follows: That the Committee recommend to the government, in view of the serious crisis in the forestry and manufacturing sectors...

That would be it?

1 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

...that it implement...

1 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

...that it implement without delay...

1 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

...an improved assistance plan for the forestry and manufacturing sectors; and that the adoption of this motion be reported to the House...

1 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

I understand.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Mr. Chair, I'm only mentioning this as a means of saying this is what we will support. If you want to bring it back at the next meeting I think it would be better if there's Madame Brunelle's acceptance, because there is going to be a debate on this motion, I'm sure, as well.

I can't do this to Conservative members. I just cut them off.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Can we bring it back on Thursday?

1 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

We're fine with this.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Van Kesteren.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

Could we also get the testimony by the Forest Products Association of Canada? I really think it's pertinent.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. We'll have that sent to all members.

Madame Brunelle.

1 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Can we get some assurance that this motion will be addressed at the start of the next meeting?

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

The problem, as I understand it, in what this committee adopted is that we have said that we will deal with motions at the end of witnesses. If the committee feels they want to change this, they can. But as I understand it, that is what we adopted at the beginning of the session.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Mr. Chair, would it be helpful to come here an hour or half an hour earlier?

1 p.m.

Bloc

Paule Brunelle Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Yes.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Half an hour or one hour?

Colin, it's up to you.