Evidence of meeting #15 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was earth.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steve MacLean  President, Canadian Space Agency
Robert Thirsk  Astronaut, Canadian Space Agency
Frank De Winne  Astronaut, European Space Agency
Koichi Wakata  Astronaut, Japanese Space Agency

10:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Space Agency

Dr. Steve MacLean

You know what? One of the interesting things about trying to answer questions like this is that you're always expected to answer it in a sound bite and give one sentence that describes it all. Sound bites are good for media, but they're not good for strategic planning, so the way to do it is to take an example of something that is important to Canadians and show them how space can make a difference, and then take another example that is important to Canadians and show them how space can make a difference.

Take the safety of our coastlines. Our military and our public safety people, which involves several different departments, as you know, protect the west and east maritime approaches very well. We have a black hole in the north, though. We don't have the protection that's required.

Space can only be part of the answer because it takes an integrated level of assets to make it safe for the whole country, but space, if we invest the way that we're suggesting we should invest, will let us tighten up our coastlines very well. We have a system that can see every ship in the world and what it's doing. This is something that is important not just to Canada but to the entire world. That's just on security.

I can take an example and make it resonate. We have talked all morning about agriculture. It's huge. You can change the GDP of a country just by using space assets. It's a challenge to do it, a challenge to change how people think culturally, but it will work because the data now are compelling. What the data tell you about what's happening to crops is quite compelling.

It's the same in forestry. We're losing forest--I think the number is four times the size of Prince Edward Island--every year in Canada. Space assets can see that happening sooner and can stop it. There's a propagation of bugs across the west that is killing our forests. We can identify that from space and know where to go. We can manage our assets much better.

If I take ocean science, the oceans are where the future is for the food supply in the world. I was on the advisory committee for Copenhagen and was with Galen Weston, a very interesting individual. His company, which has several billion dollars in revenue a year, is focusing on the oceans for their future food supply.

If I just take communication and the economic side of things, a simple way to say it is you can't use your credit card today in Toronto if someone else used it 10 minutes ago in Vancouver. It's our space assets that prevent that from happening. I could easily make a list of a day without space in Canada and what it would do for a Canadian, and I haven't even touched communications yet.

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Dr. MacLean and Mr. Lake.

The last member for today is Mr. Masse.

10:55 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to publicly recognize Dr. MacLean here. I wrote you a letter from a constituent and within a couple of weeks you actually got back to the constituent, so I want to express my appreciation for that, because sometimes when we have these issues and they go to a department or an agency, they disappear for a couple of months. It was a very prompt and a very thorough response, so I want to acknowledge that, because that's important to me as a member. I'm sure other members would appreciate that too.

I'd like to talk a little bit about junk now. You mentioned there are about 300 additional satellites to go up in space. What is up there in terms of disabled equipment or objects that have no purpose that can become a hindrance to our management of this sphere and to the addition of satellites in the future? Who is responsible for cleaning that up? Is there anybody, or is it just basically a free-for-all right now in terms of leaving things behind?

10:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Space Agency

Dr. Steve MacLean

This is an excellent question. I dislike using numbers because they change rapidly, but I believe that for pieces larger than 10 centimetres that NORAD tracks right now, there are 9,800 pieces. Don't quote me on the number, but the idea is that it's a large number.

Now, space is large; that doesn't mean it's crowded up there, but this is a large number.

There is a recognition that this is an issue by all spacefaring nations. For example, on the RADARSAT constellation that was just approved in Budget 2010, it is our responsibility as a country of this world to ensure that when that satellite system is finished, we can basically dismantle it, bring it back to Earth, and let it burn up in the atmosphere.

10:55 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Are you or the company responsible, then? It's interesting, because we actually have a study going on right now with the telco sector. They're looking at launching more satellites.

The impression I'm getting is that it's basically a junkyard up there, and they just let it go. Nobody seems to have a responsibility. Do we need to have a post-product responsibility mechanism so that, for example, if you launch a satellite and it becomes deficient or has problems, you are the one who pays to clean it up?

10:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Space Agency

Dr. Steve MacLean

Let me clarify a couple of things.

Up to about 800 kilometres, the gravity of the situation self-cleans. Space is quite clean up to about 800 kilometres.

For example, on my space walk I dropped a bolt, just a tiny bolt. It was an embarrassing thing to do, but it happens. There was lots of media attention about how I was contributing to the junk in space and so on. The truth is that the bolt burns up in the atmosphere four days later, so we're not talking about junk in low Earth orbit; we're talking about the positions of our geosynchronous satellites, meaning all the Anik series that Canada has and all the other satellites that Telesat has. Once their lifetime is over, which is anywhere from 15 to 30 years, they'll stay up there a long time.

There is a recognition that we cannot do that anymore. We have to have a way to bring those satellites down and allow them to burn up in the atmosphere as well when their lifetimes are over.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Dr. MacLean.

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Dr. Thirsk, did you have something to show us or present to us?

11 a.m.

Astronaut, Canadian Space Agency

Dr. Robert Thirsk

Yes, I just wanted to thank the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology for the invitation to be with you today. In recognition of our visit with you, I'd like to leave you with what we call a montage that celebrates Canada's involvement in Expedition 20/21 aboard the international space station. Attached to the montage is a Canadian flag that spent time with me in space. It spent six months up there and completed 3,000 orbits of the Earth.

I just ask that you post this montage in some place where your committee members will remember that Canada is a spacefaring nation that has a reputation with our partners in the space station program. We bring pragmatic and tangible benefits to Canada.

11 a.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you very much.

I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony.

This meeting is adjourned.