Industry Committee on March 8th, 2011

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay.

That, I would imagine, breaks into two groups of people. There are people who fill it out, and there's a certain segment of those people who will fill out the national household survey. Then there's a certain segment of people who only fill it out because it's mandatory. That would be a pretty accurate and obvious statement, isn't that right?

So the people who want to fill it out—who fill it out because of a sense of duty or responsibility, the same people who will fill out the national household survey—will, I assume, fill it out accurately for sure. I mean, they're filling it out from a sense of duty and responsibility, so they'll fill it out accurately.

There was some testimony about inaccuracy the last time we had committee hearings, and I've heard it from several people as I've spoken to them about this issue since then. It indicates that among those in that second group--who fill it out only because they are forced to fill it out and are threatened with fines or jail time--while there would be a certain number who would fill it out accurately, there would also be another component who would, either intentionally or because they just want to get it over with, fill it out inaccurately. We've heard testimony to that effect, and I think Darrell Bricker referred to this, actually, in his testimony before the committee.

That would strike you as pretty true, would it not--that there would be a certain segment of people who, when forced to fill it out, might fill it out inaccurately only because it is mandatory?

[Wayne Smith]

My reaction, Mr. Chair, would be that I haven't seen any study that would confirm or deny that in a categorical way.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Right. It's more of a common sense question, I suppose.

[Wayne Smith]

It has some intuitive appeal as an argument, but I don't have any evidence to support it.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay, but just to clarify—because this is my technical question—that example that I used would involve bias, would it not? That's not a sampling difference; it's bias. It's bias that would only occur among those people who are forced to fill it out, that marginal group over and above the people who fill it out automatically. It would be a bias that would only occur in a mandatory long-form census and wouldn't necessarily occur in a voluntary national household survey.

[Dr. Ivan Fellegi]

I would say that in my experience—and again, I don't have any rigorous studies of it, but I went out a lot of times observing enumerations--I wouldn't say that the categories of people that you identified are the only categories.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Of course they're not.

[Dr. Ivan Fellegi]

I think there is a large category in between those who, if told it's compulsory, it's important—

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I mentioned that group.

[Dr. Ivan Fellegi]

—and they have to do it, will do so. It's not a sense of duty, but if I'm told it's compulsory, therefore I'll do it, and I might as well do it well, rather than badly; I won't try to skew the results.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Ivan Fellegi]

But there will be some who will.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Yes, and I've talked to some of those people. Some people have actually written about it, subsequent to the decision. I would imagine the 22,000 Jedi Knights would fit into that category; the people who filled that in as their religion probably fit into that category.

I wouldn't think that we have 22,000 Jedi Knights in the room. Beyond Mr. McTeague, I'm not sure there would be anybody else in the room here.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

It's now 40,000, but I'm with you, Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to move on, if I may.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You have one minute.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Will I have another round coming up after?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That depends on how.... Yes, I think there's one more.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I won't have time to get into my question in the minute left, so I'll forgo my minute and move on. I'll ask it in the next round.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

All right, Mr. Lake; that's very magnanimous of you.

Now we go on to Mr. McTeague.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Well, I know Mr. Lake and company would like to have the force with them, but the reality is that in an environment where there is no compulsory nature—an election—we're lucky to push to a 65% to 70% turnout. There's a parallel there.

There is perhaps a question that ought to have been asked at the beginning. I can't, of course, ask this question of you, Mr. Smith, so I will ask you not to respond, and I think you'll see why.

Mr. Fellegi and Mr. McKinnon, do you support Bill C-568?

[Dr. Ivan Fellegi]

Yes, I do.

[Ian McKinnon]

Given that this is something that the Statistics Council as a group hasn't had a chance to discuss, I really can't respond.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. McKinnon, would you get back to this committee in a very timely fashion with the position of your group? Can we expect that you would canvass their opinion as soon as possible?