Evidence of meeting #61 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Smith and Monsieur Cardin.
Now we'll go on to the Liberal party again for five minutes. Go ahead, Mr. McTeague.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Let me begin with the issue of the so-called intrusive nature of the mandatory form.
Mr. Smith, if I were to fill that out under the former regime, with the former responsibility and penalties, say, for instance, with my religious affiliation, does the government know what religion I am after the fact?
5:05 p.m.
Chief Statistician, Statistics Canada
Obviously, if we knew the answer, we wouldn't have to ask the question. We only know what you responded. We don't know—
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Do you know Dan McTeague's religion, based on the former census?
5:05 p.m.
A voice
It's Jedi.
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A voice
That's what he said.
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Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Take that three seconds off, Mr. Chair. I need to recharge my.... What do they call that little thing?
5:05 p.m.
A voice
A light sabre?
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Voices
Oh, oh!
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Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
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Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Under the former system, how intrusive was it for the government to know my religion or any other pertinent, private aspect of my life by filling out the long-form census?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Statistician, Statistics Canada
Dr. Fellegi spoke quite eloquently on this at the International Statistical Institute. He said that any survey in which you compel responses is inherently privacy-intrusive. The question—and it's a question parliamentarians to some extent have to answer—is whether the benefit is worth the intrusion. That decision, in the case of the census, lay with the Governor in Council, and they took that decision.
5:10 p.m.
Chair, National Statistics Council
Stats Canada has always been very careful about lengthy consultations to ensure that any questions asked meet real demands out there. Last year's census consultation process.... The National Statistics Council is a minor part of that. They go out to ensure that there is need for those data and that there are not easier and less intrusive ways of getting it. What is in the census itself, long form or short form, is winnowed down and subject to a very high test of relevance and need.
5:10 p.m.
Former Chief Statistician of Canada, Statistics Canada, As an Individual
And confidentiality.
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Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I know; there's disaggregation here. I'm concerned about that.
I've read through what appears to be the proposed national household survey. Today being the 100th anniversary celebration of International Women's Day, I'm surprised to see.... Perhaps, Mr. Smith, you could explain to me why unpaid work of women was taken out of that form.
5:10 p.m.
Chief Statistician, Statistics Canada
Unpaid work is an absolutely critical issue, something for which we knew we need solid data. The reason the unpaid work is not in the census is that the census is not the best place to obtain it.
We have a survey called a “time use survey”. It allows us to probe into this issue of unpaid work, which is very complex. Unpaid work is not only performed by parents who are living at home with their children and not working; it's also performed by people who work. It's performed while people work at home. You really cannot properly assess it by asking a couple of questions on a census.
The census is very powerful for looking at issues that have a meaning and importance for small areas. An example would be knowing where there are pools of labour, a labour market with people who have the appropriate qualifications to support such and such a plan for such and such a kind of activity—the small area data—or where to put a denominational school. The unpaid work data does not have a great deal of validity or usefulness at a small area level, so the census is not the correct instrument.
The question itself is vitally important. We have a better instrument, we do measure it, and we measure it very well.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
How long have you been using that instrument, sir?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Statistician, Statistics Canada
The question on unpaid work will have been on the census for three cycles, if I'm correct.
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Chief Statistician, Statistics Canada
The time use survey has been going on since the mid-eighties, at least.
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Chair, National Statistics Council
That's, in fact, a classic example of the real care Statistics Canada takes. It consulted over years. The dilemma was, of course, that the time use survey had the space to ask the 30 or 40 questions that you really need to ask in order to understand time use, and because of the nature of those questions and the need for them, that trade-off was made. That kind of agonizing is done for virtually every question, so that only the vital ones are on the census.