Evidence of meeting #63 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sandy Walker  Partner, Fraser Milner Casgrain LLP, As an Individual
Mike MacPherson  Legislative Clerk, House of Commons
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Jean Michel Roy

March 24th, 2011 / 4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

For the rest of the committee, we'll deal with some business right now.

Everybody, I believe, has a copy of Mr. Rota's motion in both official languages. I'll just go ahead with the ruling, Mr. Rota, because I think you'll see why, based on your motion.

As the members are well aware, a committee has an order of reference from the House with regard to Bill C-568, a private member's bill. In the case of private member's bills, the committee has three options available to fulfill its mandate.

Option number one is that the committee may simply ignore the order of reference, and the bill will automatically be deemed reported back to the House without amendment after the prescribed period of sitting days has elapsed. That period is 60 days, with the possibility of a further 30 days if we ask for an extension.

Option number two is that the committee may adopt a motion to not proceed further with the bill. This option sets in motion the elements of Standing Order 97.1(2), a motion to concur, and the report is automatically placed on a notice, debated, and subsequently voted on. If the concurrence motion not to proceed carries, the bill is defeated; if the motion fails, the bill is deemed reported without amendment.

Then we have a third option: the committee may proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of the bill. In this case the committee considers the bill clause by clause, and if necessary word by word, and approves the text or modifies it. Once all of the clauses have been approved, modified, or deleted, the bill in its entirety is submitted for the approval of the committee. After the bill is adopted, the chair asks the committee for leave to report the bill to the House.

The motion of Mr. Rota seeks to empower the committee to skip clause-by-clause consideration of the bill and instruct the chair of the committee to immediately report the bill back to the House without amendment. As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, states on page 762, “Each clause of the bill is a distinct question requiring separate consideration.”

In order to properly consider the bill, it will be necessary for the chair to formally put the question on each clause, any possible amendments or subamendments, the title, the bill itself, and the motion seeking leave to report the bill.

Since the motion of Mr. Rota seeks to combine all of these distinct questions into one general motion, it deprives the members of the opportunity to propose amendments and voice their opinions on the separate elements being considered. For these reasons I must rule that the motion is out of order.

You of course have that option, Mr. Rota.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Chair, I would respectfully move that this decision is challengeable, and we therefore challenge the chair.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

There has been a challenge to the chair.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Can we debate that?

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

No, it's a dilatory motion, so we proceed directly to a vote.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

We'll get a recorded vote.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

I have a procedural question.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

I think a procedural question is okay in this regard.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Am I correct that if a challenge of the chair happens and you're overruled, then we go to the motion? Does it then just go to the House, or is there an option for us to ask the Speaker whether it was appropriate or not?

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

If the ruling stands and the motion is declared out of order, then we go back to other business.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

I think there's a bit of an answer over there from the legal clerk.

4:20 p.m.

Mike MacPherson Legislative Clerk, House of Commons

You're assuming, then, that the chair's decision would be overturned?

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Yes.

4:20 p.m.

Legislative Clerk, House of Commons

Mike MacPherson

Should the chair's decision be overruled, the motion would then become debatable and amendable, as with any other motion.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

And the Speaker doesn't have to rule whether that was--

4:20 p.m.

Legislative Clerk, House of Commons

Mike MacPherson

That would depend on whether or not there were points of order raised in the House.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

We could raise a point of order in the House.

4:20 p.m.

An hon. member

Next week.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Why are we doing this if we're not going to be here next week anyway, Anthony? That's my question.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Maybe Anthony knows something we don't.

I know this is going to take us a few minutes, but could you read the reason you're ruling it out of order one more time? I think it's important.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

In general it's because every clause is a distinct question in and of itself. Going ahead with this motion would actually take away the right of each member to debate each separate question.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Could we ask the clerk of the committee if he agrees with that ruling?

4:25 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Jean Michel Roy

Yes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Okay. I just wanted to make sure that the clerk agrees with the ruling. We're really overruling the impartial clerk of the committee.

Okay, we'll get a recorded vote, if we could, please.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Shall the ruling of the chair be sustained?

(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 6; yeas 5)

I think that means I'm overruled and that the motion is now back on the floor for debate.