Industry Committee on June 12th, 2012

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses for being here.

I would like to follow up with Ms. Fraser on the IP policies across the range of Canadian universities, the evolution of those policies, and the continuum of policies that I know exist across the different universities. For example, at the University of Waterloo there's a policy that gives a large degree of freedom to the professor and the graduate student to retain ownership of their intellectual property.

I'm wondering, is there any appetite across Canadian universities to somehow standardize that IP policy? I'm sure there's a large degree of desire to retain autonomy at that level, but I'd like your input on that.

Secondly, how do we compare to other international partners in terms of the university regime, as far as it relates to protection of intellectual property?

[Erica Fraser]

As far as standardization, there is obviously a wide range of policies across Canada. At Dalhousie University, the researchers own their own intellectual property. That can be altered by contract, if they choose to contract with a company that wishes to deal directly with the university versus the researchers themselves.

That being said, that's defined in a collective agreement. If you were looking to standardize the IP policies across Canada, it's possible—it has been done in the U.S.—but it would mean changing every collective agreement.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Could you just clarify what the U.S. standard is, then?

[Erica Fraser]

Yes. It's under the Bayh-Dole Act. There is some legal uncertainty as to what that means right now after a case at the Supreme Court last year. Currently the understanding is that it means the researchers have to disclose their intellectual property to the university and the university has rights to commercialize that IP.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

The actual developer has no ownership at all, or would there be a joint ownership of the IP?

[Erica Fraser]

I don't know enough to comment on that. I do know that most universities have some sort of revenue sharing with their researchers in the U.S.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Do you know how we compare with, for example, the U.K., Australia, France...?

[Erica Fraser]

I don't know about France for sure, but I understand that the U.K. system is much like ours, where you have sort of a smorgasbord of different policies.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

And universities have the autonomy to establish their own collective bargaining.

[Erica Fraser]

Absolutely.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

An issue I certainly wasn't aware of was the issue you raised in your opening comment about the need for more patent agents distributed across the country, particularly in smaller centres. Could you just elaborate? What is the process for establishing yourself as a patent agent...and for knowing in the first place that it's a possibility? I certainly didn't know that until today—not that I'm looking for a new job.

[Erica Fraser]

No, understood.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Maybe in 12 years.

[Erica Fraser]

Many patent agents are also lawyers, but they don't need to be. Patent agents are often people with a technical background, often but not always with advanced degrees in particular sciences or engineering. Depending on the field, the higher the education necessary; in pharmaceuticals, for example, it's not uncommon to find PhD-level patent agents.

The process for becoming a patent agent is to write an exam. This exam is very challenging. The last numbers I saw for the pass rate across Canada were from 2010, when the pass rate was between 10% and 12%. Many people have to take the exam several times before they are successful. In terms of preparation for this exam, the most preparation that's really available through CIPO is through past exams posted online.

With regard to training courses available, IPIC—I believe you had someone here earlier this spring—offers a training course, but it's only offered in the Ottawa region. There might be one in Vancouver now. If you're coming from Atlantic Canada, you have to travel to that. It's not an inexpensive course.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

But once you've established the fact that you have passed the exam, there is nothing stopping you from setting up shop anywhere in Canada--there are no jurisdictional parameters in terms of not being able to set up in an area because there is one five miles down the road.

[Erica Fraser]

No, absolutely not. They tend to conglomerate in Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, because—

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Sure, based on market forces.

[Erica Fraser]

Exactly.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

But there are no legal restrictions.

[Erica Fraser]

There are no legal restrictions for doing so.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

All right.

Those are all my questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Albrecht.

The valley of death and pass rates as low as 12%--it's a brutal industry.

Mr. Regan, for five minutes.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

“Yea, though I walk through...”. It's kind of like being in the House of Commons, I guess.

[An hon. member]

It might be by Thursday.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Yes. We'll all feel like that in a couple of days.

Professor Fraser, first of all, let me ask you about how you would describe the state of innovation in our home region of Atlantic Canada and what needs to be done to inspire more companies like Ocean Nutrition, Acadian Seaplants, Radian6, Precision BioLogic, etc.