Oh, oh!
Evidence of meeting #44 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was university.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was university.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Dr. Barber, on the question of university culture, I almost want to ask why you are here. Is there something you think the Government of Canada can do that we, as parliamentarians, can have an influence on, that can change the cultural challenge you've referred to?
In a sense, you have been trying to change it and haven't succeeded at a direct level. How can we do it?
12:35 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
I'm here because I care about Canada. I don't like the fact that we're slipping in our prosperity and that with all the knowledge we have we're not able to create value we can trade.
12:35 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
What can we do? There is a big cultural factor where the federal government plays a role. Look at the public funding that goes into the universities. I was the chair of the board of governors. I was on the finance committee of McMaster for probably 14 years. They didn't use GAAP, so I had difficulty reading the financials some of the time, but there was no doubt about where the money came from.
The interesting thing is that in the provinces that have responsibility for education, for every two dollars they put into the operating funds of universities for education, the federal government puts in a dollar for research. I want to say, and I'll say it bluntly, that I believe that emphasis.... It's scientific research. Even in SSHRC, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, people are measured on objective, evidence-based research, not on subjective, experiential-based research. So experiential learning has almost gone out of the post-secondary learning environment. It's all objective and evidence-based.
All I'm saying is that if you put a dollar in for every two dollars from the provinces, and it's for scientific learning, you can't say that you're not affecting the learning environment. You are.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Are you saying that instead of that, the federal government should be funding co-op? Am I misunderstanding what you mean by experiential?
12:40 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
I have to tell you that we are a long way...we are all enculturated in the Canadian culture—even at the university you come from—and what that means is, if we start talking about experiential learning, we don't know what we're talking about yet. All we know is that we need to move.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Sorry. I'd just like to clarify what you mean by experiential learning. I mentioned co-op in the sense of people going out and working in the private sector. Is that the kind of experiential learning or connection to it that you're speaking of?
12:40 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
It is if you're in the university, and I've been associated with Waterloo as well. Waterloo is different because of co-op learning and because it has gone out to the employers—you've got to educate the employers too. It's told the employers that when they engage a co-op student, they have to know they're participating in the student's development, and they won't win out with the university if they just have the student sweeping the floors or something like that; they need to put students into situations.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
I've been hearing about Waterloo's co-op program from my wife for 20 years, so I appreciate it. Believe me, it's a great program.
12:40 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
Let me just mention one more thing that you may not know about. I talk about this around McMaster. I think the greatest experiment that has happened in the world happened in McMaster. It's called the McMaster University Medical Centre, the hospital and the medical school there. Why is it different? To start out in that medical school, you didn't have to have pre-med; you had to have a degree. You didn't have to have good marks in the degree, but you had to demonstrate that you were interested in people and interested in helping people, that your life had already demonstrated that.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
I know. Dr. John Ramanauskas was my doctor at one time. He was a graduate of McMaster. His background was geology. I met his wife in law school, so I'm familiar with that.
I'd like to go on, if I may. I only have seven minutes. My time is almost over, so if you don't mind.... Sorry.
12:40 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
I'm sorry. I just want to say there were no courses, no examinations, and you got an M.D. in three years. Very different from anywhere else, very experiential—
12:40 p.m.
Distinguished Professor-in-Residence, McMaster University, As an Individual
—because you're in the hospital right away.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thank you.
Mr. Drapeau—and I think Mr. Spreekmeester might be interested in this also—let me ask you about what you think the practical process ought to be at the border. With the number and nature and variety of goods that cross the border, I'm trying to picture what it would be like and what a border guard would do—how long it would take, and how a border guard would assess it when looking at a number of items in the back of a truck crossing the border or coming in on a ship.
How would border guards assess that? How do you think that ought to work?
12:45 p.m.
Litigator, Advisor and Trade-Mark Agent, DrapeauLex Inc., As an Individual
First of all, thank you for your question. I was starting to despair that none of you would ask me any questions.
Listen, it's an ongoing process. I've actually talked to people at the World Customs Organization in Belgium about this. First, you've got to start with—and I'm sorry, the word in English escapes me—un système de repérage. You have to impart the knowledge to the customs officials: watch out, there's Canada Goose. Some of them may not even know that Canada Goose exists. I hope that's not the case, but...
The reason I'm telling you this is that I've coordinated training sessions with customs officials for certain brand owners, the only reason being to raise custom officials' awareness on a given brand. The problem is this is all done on an ad hoc basis. If you have an established system where you have, first, a registry system where the brands that are interested in having counterfeits of their brands patrolled...they register with that system. Then what you have to do is empower customs officials to seize counterfeit merchandise, not because there's a false declaration on the statement to bring in the merchandise, but because the merchandise is counterfeit in and of itself. Right now, they don't even have that power.
Then you have to get into a process of detaining the merchandise, because you have to respect due process. What if the merchandise isn't counterfeit? What if it's grey goods? You have to get into a process of detaining.
I think it would go over the six minutes you're allotted to speak with me to talk about that.
Finally, Mr. Spreekmeester raised a point that is very important, a question that has been raised in a number of fora, including the World Customs Organization, and Union des Fabricants, in France, which is the mother organization of a lot of brands. What do you do with destruction? Who pays for destruction? When do you destroy? Their reflection is getting to be so advanced that they're now considering how to destroy so that it's green. In Canada we don't even know that destruction exists.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Mr. Drapeau, I need to interrupt. I gave a full minute and a half extra for two reasons: one, Mr. Regan was fretting about his time; and two, you hadn't had any questions. That's as merciful as I can get without being in big trouble with the rest of my committee on my accountability for time.
12:45 p.m.
An hon. member
Too late.
12:45 p.m.
Voices
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12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
You see how tough it is for me?
We're going to go in camera and transition soon, but first we'll go to two questioners. I wanted to try to squeeze in two three-minute questioners, but if we try to do that, we'll be in trouble. I think it's better that we pause right—
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
He's saying that he wants to have a discussion about how we even transition.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
You need to officially present your motion, of course, and then I know where another motion is going to come from.
We'll consider that your motion is presented, Mr. Regan.
Mr. Harris.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
This motion has been presented, but what other motions are there that could be presented today?
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Well, anybody who has given notice within 48 hours could present a motion. However, we did make special time at the end of the committee to be able to do this.
Mr. Carmichael.