Evidence of meeting #61 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coverage.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alain Beaudoin  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Spectrum, Information Technologies and Telecommunications, Department of Industry
Pamela Miller  Director General, Telecommunications Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Chris Padfield  Director General, Digital Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Daniel Rubinstein  Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Michael Buda  Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

At the last meeting of the industry committee here, we had Mr. Scott Smith, the director of intellectual property and innovation policy from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. He spoke about how there's “somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2.2 million” small or medium-sized enterprises in Canada. Giving us a pretty shocking number, he said, “Approximately 70% of those companies don't currently have a website.”

That's a staggering number given today's technology and its availability. They don't seem to be taking advantage of it, and that's not only the small companies. There are large companies as well that have not adopted it. It's fine to have connectivity, but if it's not getting used, and certainly business doesn't seem to be leveraging that....

Mr. Beaudoin, I think you touched on it very briefly. What additional measures are you taking to actually increase that penetration? In terms of the current program, while it seems to have helped 600 businesses start to develop an online presence, that's a drop in the bucket out of 2.2 million.

4:25 p.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Spectrum, Information Technologies and Telecommunications, Department of Industry

Alain Beaudoin

I referred earlier to the point that businesses in Canada overall are investing 58% of what the U.S. firms are. As you mentioned, this is an opportunity they should seize. We think it's critical with regard to competitiveness and making sure they can be innovative.

At the end of the day, the government needs to have a targeted approach. That's one of the things the IRAP and also the BDC will do: work with the industry and with various associations as well to try to increase the number of firms that will adopt ICTs and that will have a presence on the Internet.

For example, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce itself has a role to promote with its members the importance of having a web presence, of tapping into the available resources, and to make sure they do that. As part of their membership, they have a number of ICT firms that can provide solutions to their members as well. It's also important that the various associations themselves work with their members to increase their web presence and their adoption of ICTs in order to increase, as I mentioned, their ability to innovate, but also to compete.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

You mentioned that the government needs a targeted approach to address that issue. Does Industry Canada currently have a targeted approach, with measurables and deliverables to measure success in bringing Canadian businesses online?

4:30 p.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Spectrum, Information Technologies and Telecommunications, Department of Industry

Alain Beaudoin

As I mentioned, the government has a targeted approach through IRAP and NRC-IRAP to increase adoption. Our targeted approach is to focus on SMEs; I referred to some of the challenges SMEs are facing. In the last two years, the government has put forward measures to address that specific need through IRAP and the BDC. They're working closely together to complement their efforts to target the SMEs specifically and also to make sure this information is shared with the economy as a whole.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

What kind of target has been set to be reached by the end of 2014? I picked that number out of the air. You can take 2015 as well.

4:30 p.m.

Chris Padfield Director General, Digital Policy Branch, Department of Industry

At the end of the program, they were expecting about 600 firms to be supported directly through advice, with the expectation of their having expanded and shared their experiences with a few thousand other firms. This is really the idea of getting them to share a lot of the results of their projects through direct funding with others.

I want to clarify the chamber's 30% figure; I'm not sure of the origins of that. Our last StatsCan survey on business adoption of websites comes from 2007. They had about 40% of businesses in Canada with updated websites. We're currently in the field right now with a further survey, which we're going to have results for in June. We'll have to share those at that time. I'm unsure of the source of the 30%. I know that StatsCan figures are much higher than that.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

I'd have one more, but I'm out of time.

That will be the end of this session. We'll suspend for two minutes and wait for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to come to the table, and then we'll continue.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Ladies and gentlemen, we're back now with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. We have Michael Buda, director of policy and research, and Daniel Rubinstein, who's a policy analyst, policy and research. Mr. Rubinstein will have opening remarks for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

Just a reminder, colleagues, we'll have about 12 to 15 minutes left at the end to deal with business.

Go ahead, Mr. Rubinstein.

4:30 p.m.

Daniel Rubinstein Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

Good afternoon.

Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today. Our president, Karen Leibovici, from Edmonton, Alberta, sends her best wishes.

As you know, FCM has been the national voice of municipal governments since 1901. We represent close to 2,000 municipalities, which in turn represent over 90% of Canada's population.

FCM and its board of directors have been engaged with a variety of issues related to broadband and telecommunications. I'll name a few quickly: the siting of antenna systems and cell towers in our communities; the impact of telecommunications infrastructure on the management of the municipal rights-of-way; the need for 20 megahertz of dedicated 700-megahertz spectrum for public safety broadband; the importance of robust and accessible broadband services for rural communities; and the unique challenges of providing telecommunications services in northern and remote communities.

We are happy to answer any questions you may have on any of these issues, but we'd like to focus our opening remarks on two areas—rural broadband and northern telecommunications.

FCM's members are in the business of building essential infrastructure that supports our communities—from roads and bridges to water and waste water and to recreation and cultural facilities. In today's digital world, broadband connectivity has become as critical as this core municipal infrastructure to the sustainability and prosperity of our communities and of Canada as a whole.

This is Industry Canada's description of the Broadband Canada program:

Broadband Internet access is viewed as essential infrastructure for participating in today's economy, as it enables citizens, businesses and institutions to access information, services and opportunities that could otherwise be out of reach.

For rural communities, the absence of broadband Internet significantly impedes economic development and denies communities such competitive advantages as the electronic delivery of health and education services and the ability to gain access to markets for products that are produced in their regions.

FCM's 2009 report on the federal role in rural sustainability highlighted the need for federal investments in rural broadband infrastructure in order to close the digital divide between rural and urban Canada.

This is consistent with Canada's telecommunications policy objectives as stated in section 7 of the Telecommunications Act. Paragraph 7(b) lists this objective for Canada:

to render reliable and affordable telecommunications services of high quality accessible to Canadians in both urban and rural areas in all regions of Canada;

Over the past several years, the Government of Canada has made some important investments in rural broadband, including through Broadband Canada: Connecting Rural Canadians, a program that was part of the economic action plan; as well as, for example, the Eastern Ontario Regional Network, which was funded through the major infrastructure component of the Building Canada fund.

These programs have brought a minimum level of broadband access to eligible rural communities. In the case of Broadband Canada, broadband is defined as a minimum 1.5 megabits per second, and the Eastern Ontario Regional Network is bringing speeds up to 10 megabits per second. However, with the rate of technological change, the rapid transition to electronic delivery of government services, and the widespread adoption of business offerings that require real-time and robust broadband access, there is much more that must be done to ensure that the digital divide between rural and urban does not widen further.

As the committee is aware, two recent decisions by Industry Canada on spectrum management will have a significant impact on the deployment of rural broadband networks going forward. These were spoken about in the last hour.

First, the Government of Canada has included a rural deployment requirement in the final conditions of licence for the upcoming 700-megahertz spectrum auction.

In FCM's submission to Industry Canada's consultation on this issue, we expressed our concerns about the effectiveness of the rural deployment requirement, as it only applies to carriers with two paired blocks of spectrum, and includes targets that are based on HSPA network footprints that were in effect in March of 2012.

In our submission, we encouraged Industry Canada to reconsider the decision to use the HSPA footprint, as we believe it offers no guarantee of rural deployment.

We also recommended that Industry Canada include measures to ensure unused rural spectrum is used in a timely fashion.

We note that the final conditions of licence released last week do not address these concerns, which, in our opinion, may require the federal government to introduce future measures or incentives down the road to ensure that 700-megahertz networks are in fact deployed in rural Canada.

Second, as was discussed earlier, the federal government has announced it will be allowing licence-exempt use of what's called “TV white space” spectrum, which takes advantage of the unused spectrum created by the conversion to digital television.

Based on trials that have already occurred in the U.S. and the U.K., there appears to be significant potential for TV white space to bring broadband to rural communities at a lower cost than networks using licensed spectrum. We encourage the government to introduce its final technical requirements for TV white space as soon as possible so that trials can begin in Canada.

On the issue of northern and remote communications infrastructure, we have several recommendations that are consistent with the 2011 “Arctic Communications Infrastructure Assessment Report”—ACIA—which we encourage the committee to consider during the study.

We agree with the ACIA report's conclusion that:

an inadequate communications infrastructure [in the North] cannot be allowed to cause more important things to fail, like emergency services, health, education, housing, industry, opportunity and sovereignty.

In the interests of time, I'm going to go through our recommendations quickly, but I'm happy to elaborate further during the questions.

First, the Government of Canada should develop a north-specific strategy with clearly defined rules that articulate a sustained, multi-year funding commitment for communications network development to meet connectivity standards both for Internet and voice in the north. The need for a holistic strategy is extremely important as existing federal subsidies for northern ICT services, information communications technology services, are set to expire in 2016.

Second, the government should commit to service parity both among northern communities and also between the south and the north.

Third, the government should ensure there is a redundant connection into every arctic community to avoid gaps in the provision of essential services.

Fourth, the government should ensure that investment strategies for arctic communication networks include provisions for the increasing rate of technological change and the continuous introduction of new consumer services and devices.

Fifth, government policy should foster competition in ICT services in the north, including through a restructuring of the National Contribution Fund, which is administered by the CRTC, to allow for portable contributions.

Finally, the government should work with northern municipalities in developing its strategy for ICT development in the north. Now is the time to re-evaluate Canada's policies for ICT development in both rural Canada and in the north, so that all Canadians not only have access to broadband, but have sufficient bandwidth to take advantage of new technologies and participate in the global economy.

That concludes our remarks. We're happy to answer your questions.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Mr. Rubinstein.

We'll now move to Mr. Warawa for seven minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the FCM for being here. Do you have a handout, including the recommendations, regarding the presentation you just made?

4:40 p.m.

Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

Daniel Rubinstein

I don't, but we have provided the speaking notes to the clerk and we can make that available to members.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Very good. Thank you.

I believe our government highlighted, through the economic action plan, some of the incredibly good things the government has done. Of course, there is more to do, but I want to focus on what the federal government can do to help, and also provincially and municipally. What you represent, as a body, is the vast majority of municipal governments across Canada.

What role does a municipal government play? Well, they provide a form of consultation with the community as this infrastructure occurs across Canada. They are the body, the ears, and Industry Canada of course listens to them.

There's been a recent development of a protocol with you and the industry, and I think it's relatively new. Could you explain the purpose of that protocol and what the FCM is planning to do in encouraging local governments to provide guidance, a protocol, within the communities that may be consistent across the country, to provide some diversity options? How is this protocol going to work?

One of the challenges that I think many of the MPs around this table will hear is that there may be a proposed new tower in a community and there may be some people in the community who are not happy with that, so they go to their councillor and mayor and say they don't want that there. That would be the first line of defence, if they're trying to keep this very important infrastructure from happening.

What role would you see the FCM playing with municipalities in this new protocol in encouraging the facts to get out? For example, a resident would say that it will devalue their home; it will make their home harder to sell if they have high-speed Internet broadband access. In fact, it would be the opposite. If you lived in an area where you do not have access to the service in a very quickly changing industry, if you don't have access to that service in your area, it would actually devalue the home.

How is the FCM going to work with local government to make sure more and more Canadians are using the service? The more Canadians who access the service, the more the price of the service will decrease.

4:40 p.m.

Michael Buda Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

That's for sure.

Certainly, the situation you describe is a very common one that municipalities experience, in that everyone wants services, but very few people want to host the potentially negative impacts of delivering that service locally. Sometimes it's called NIMBYism—not in my backyard—and that certainly applies to the installation of some forms of ITC infrastructure, particularly antenna towers.

The intent of that protocol is actually to first inform and really empower citizens to know about how new infrastructure development might impact their property or their community. The long experience of municipalities shows it's always better to ensure that the community is aware of what's happening and how it's going to change the community. The consultations, if there are going to be consultations, can occur without the suspicions and innuendo and, frankly, I think as you mentioned, false facts and the rest.

What this protocol really is meant to do is, frankly, require industry, in all cases, to work with municipalities through the normal community consultation processes that municipalities apply to all sorts of services that might get the kind of response that you're describing, so that they can manage it the way they do everything else. It's not just federally regulated activities that get this kind of attention; most municipal services do as well.

The intent is simply to require telecommunications providers to use exactly the same consultation processes that municipalities use to successfully manage this kind of thing in a wide range of other issues. Of course, as I hope the committee knows, the existing policies allowed for an exemption of antenna towers of under 15 metres from any form of public consultation or notice, which I think in the minds of our members seemed both unreasonable and also ineffective. Again, it gets rumours going; there's disinformation and the rest.

So we're very pleased to work with the wireless and telegraph association to come to a voluntary agreement to improve the level of consultation in that area.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Do I have any time left, Chair?

Okay. For the Chamber of Commerce, the municipal government, of course, is the licensing body for business. What role is the FCM playing with the Chamber of Commerce—they were here at the last meeting—to again inform business?

Mr. Harris highlighted the point that 70% of businesses don't even have a web page. If they don't keep up with the change, they will be left behind. Are you working with the chamber?

4:45 p.m.

Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

Michael Buda

Probably not specifically on that issue; frankly, most of our work, especially on the deployment and use of broadband technologies, has been focused on rural and northern communities.

That's not because what's happening in urban communities is less important, but simply because we have limited resources, and our members have identified the lack and paucity of services in those rural and northern communities to be at least the first thing we should focus on.

So on that question we haven't done a lot of work, although we do work closely with the chamber on other issues.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Thank you.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Mr. Warawa.

Now we'll go to Mr. Stewart for seven minutes.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. Thanks for coming today.

Maybe we could keep to the same theme of the urban settlements. I know that you've been doing a lot of rural work, and that's really important, but here's what I'd like you to turn your minds to. When you think about cities, major cities around the world, you think about places like Seoul, Korea, where you can get wireless broadband on the subway systems. It's very cheap to access high-speed Internet in the world. Downtown, it's very cheap. It's $35 a month or something, and it can be even cheaper in the core.

How do you picture Canadian cities in relation to that?

4:45 p.m.

Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

Michael Buda

I would say that the experience is mixed. Certainly, I think it's safe to say that, in general, especially the larger Canadian cities simply aren't keeping up with their counterparts in this area, for the simple fact that most municipalities are struggling to keep up with increasing demands and mostly static revenues from property taxes, and in fact cuts to transfers and other revenues.

It means that municipalities are juggling growing costs and stable revenues, which means they have to really prioritize where they put their funds. Often, that means maintaining core infrastructure, i.e., making sure your bridges don't fall down, the drinking water is still safe, and your wastewater treatment plant is operating to satisfaction and to regulation.

That said, obviously municipalities are always trying to stretch their dollar further and do what they can, so in fact there are a lot of examples. Indeed, from the region you're from, you can ride the SkyTrain almost anywhere and maintain those services, but it's nowhere close to what you're experiencing elsewhere.

Really, it comes down to the resources that we've empowered our cities to either collect or have shared with them from other orders of government. Obviously, FCM's long-standing position is that municipalities play a really important role in strengthening our economy, but if we want them to maximize that role, we need to ensure that we're investing in them, whether that be through supporting basic infrastructure, which takes the pressure off the municipal balance sheets so they can do these other things, or supporting them in those areas directly.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Okay. In Burnaby, where I'm from, we have a lot of tech companies, but I think of other tech companies around the world, and they think they can go anywhere, pretty well. What I'm worried about is that they're not thinking of large Canadian cities as the places that are the most attractive for business to happen, mainly because we're not keeping up with other cities in terms of reducing their costs, essentially, for wireless and broadband access.

Besides transferring money for basic infrastructure, of course, are there any experiments in Canadian cities you'd like to point us to that we perhaps could look at? I know that Toronto has done some things.

4:50 p.m.

A voice

Some examples—

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Yes. Maybe we could go from there.

March 19th, 2013 / 4:50 p.m.

Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities

Michael Buda

Well, as I said, because we haven't spent a lot of time focusing on the opportunities in urban areas, we don't have a lot of information. Surely the Canadian wireless and telegraph association would, because they've been doing a lot of work on that, and likely the chamber and other organizations would. We can't point to anything specific.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Kennedy Stewart NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Okay.

Is there anything else that you wanted to add about rural access? You did say that was the point you were highlighting. It's going to be especially hard for smaller municipalities to invest in anything other than the most basic schemes, so perhaps this is something that.... Is there some kind of national strategy? We have heard from others that they'd like to have a digital strategy. Is this something that you would also support?