Evidence of meeting #105 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Madame Verschuren, I'll let you finish your thought.
Mr. Perkins, you're out of time.
Madame Verschuren.
11:25 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
The important point I'd like to make is that in the clean-tech sector, there are great growth opportunities in Canada and we need to grow them. In the United States, they have different ways in which they invest in new technology and clean technology. We have to compete with that, and we are punching above our weight. We really are, and it has a lot to do with what SDTC is doing. That, to me, is what's critical.
Our investments are being made to further these technologies. This is the normal course of business.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
There are a couple of things that I'd like to clarify about the numbers raised in the previous conversation regarding investments made to other companies.
Did the individuals—where there was a perceived conflict—declare their conflict at the time those investments were made?
11:25 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
Absolutely. We always declared conflicts. Those board members would have declared those conflicts, would not have been involved in the decisions, would not have received the material and would have recused themselves at the board when those projects were reviewed. That was how this organization worked. There was great discipline there.
The other thing that's very important to note is that, with these investments.... It is very critical to understand that there was great discipline at SDTC in terms of what it did, and great due diligence. These processes were closely administered and critically abided by. Remember, the act says.... We wanted to have board members who had experience in sustainable development and sustainable industries. These people around the table—amazing people at the board of SDTC—have that capacity in business, not-for-profit and—
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I'd like to get back to the process, though. I think that's the issue we'd like to have a better understanding of.
You're saying to me that, for all those numbers previously recited, the individuals who had financial interests had declared their conflicts at the time those decisions were made.
Is that correct?
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Okay.
Let's go back to the one where there seems to be a question. That is the COVID payment.
Did you go through the same process? Why were those interests not declared? Why did they not get involved in the vote when that proposal was brought forward?
11:25 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
This came forward as a package. All the conflicts had been declared on the 126 companies. We as management sought advice and received advice from a reputable legal firm to the effect that, look, by putting them together as a package, you wouldn't have to redeclare that conflict. You put it together as a package, recognizing that all those conflicts had already been declared. Not one of these companies was going to be treated differently. Not one of these companies was given anything different. It was 5% across the board.
That was the reason. We had confidence in the recommendation of the partner from the legal firm, who was saying that this could be done as a package because it was an operational thing. This was totally different from the analysis that would have been done to make the investment in that initial project—totally different. That was the difference.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I understand the interest in common. I was a mayor for 12 years. When there was the perception, at least, of a conflict of interest, we declared. We made the decision not to participate in that vote.
You're saying, though, that you had legal advice that said that because you had an interest in common and not a specific interest, it was appropriate for individuals to vote on the issue.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I'd like to get back to the routine processes. I'm familiar with establishing an agenda and circulating the agenda, but at the beginning of every meeting that I was accustomed to as a director for our hydro company and also a number of holdings for the municipality, there was always, at the very beginning, an agenda item that required a declaration of interest, so that it was part of the minutes.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
When I see some of the background material, it says to me that the minutes could have been kept more accurately. What has the board done between then and now to improve those processes?
11:30 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
The minutes reflect this. In the minutes it says that a certain director has a conflict. Those are declared. Those are declared in the meeting, and they're declared in the minutes.
Perhaps the minutes did not provide enough information specifically about our recusing ourselves and leaving the room. We're upgrading that. As part of the management response and action plan that the minister has asked the SDTC organization to exercise, we have tightened that up to make sure that we absolutely paper everything and have that clarity.
All the cases where I declared conflicts are in the minutes of the meetings that I attended.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen. Your time is up.
Seeing that Mr. Masse has managed to join us, I will get back to him for his initial round of six minutes.
Mr. Masse, the floor is yours.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for that indulgence on the computer issues.
Ms. Verschuren, who is ultimately responsible for approving or disapproving the minutes of the meetings?
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
When minutes come back from the previous meeting, do you go through the same process that I used to as a board member for charitable organizations? Do you approve the minutes of the meeting before?
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
How is it, then, that there was no understanding or appreciation of how deficient the minutes were? I've looked at the minutes of those meetings and they're bare bones. They deal with significant financial issues. They're much more involved with regard to companies than...even the minutes when I sat at not-for-profit organizations. They're rather shocking, in fact, in the lack of detail to them.
How is it that board members, sitting on so many boards, didn't actually come to the conclusion that your board minutes were basically a fraud?
11:30 a.m.
O.C., As an Individual
The board minutes were not a fraud. There are areas of the board minutes that I think we can improve and that I believe the organization is improving. I think we always have to reflect and improve and increase our standards.
Those meetings did reflect people recusing themselves from those projects. In my case, it recorded me leaving the meetings and other board members as well leaving the meetings and coming back after the project had been reviewed by the full board.
