Evidence of meeting #50 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tutsi.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye  Member, Humura Association

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Colleagues, order please.

We are the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. This is December 11, 2014, and we are holding our 50th meeting.

We are televised, I think.

We have as our witness today, from the Humura Association, Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye. Before we turn to our witness, I'm going to ask that we deal with a matter of committee business and try to establish whether or not we will need to take time in this meeting to give any drafting instructions to the analysts. We discussed this at our last meeting. I said I would come back at the beginning of this meeting to find out whether there was anything that needed to be passed on to the analysts.

Let me ask that question now. Drafting instructions ought to be dealt with in camera. We'll find out whether there are any. If there are, I'll suggest we shift them to the end of the meeting.

All right, none from the government side. Are there any from the Liberal side? I'll just confirm with the New Democrats.

Mr. Cotler.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

I thought we had agreed that we would start to draft a report on Honduras. Is that correct?

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Yes, they do have instructions on that. The question was whether there was anything specific people wanted to pass on to the analysts to make sure they include it in the report.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Okay, then, that's fine.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Mr. Marston or Mr. Benskin.

December 11th, 2014 / 1:05 p.m.

Conservative

David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

I might mention that [Inaudible--Editor] yesterday was the Organization of American States' recent report. I see from the nods that has already been duly recorded.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right.

I'm going to have to leave this meeting early because I have an S.O. 31 in the House. Mr. Marston will take the chair for the last part of the meeting. I'm just alerting you now.

I also say this because there's something I have to do as chair, and normally this is for the very end of the final meeting before Christmas, and that's simply to thank our staff. I'm not sure where we start. I'm going to end with the clerk because, of course, she is the most essential of all. We have translators to thank. We have technical people to thank. We have our omni-competent analysts, including Miguel, who is off to—I won't say bigger and better things—do a lateral shift to another function and we'll miss him very much; and of course, our clerk. Thank you for all the great work that you do.

Thank you to all of you. Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, and all the other stuff associated with this season.

1:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Professor Cotler.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

I just want to join in your expression of thanks, but also thank you for chairing a wonderful committee. I've always said this is an exemplary committee in the House of Commons. Your leadership is an extremely important part of our collaborative effort.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you very much.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Irwin Cotler Liberal Mount Royal, QC

If I may add just one thing, it's something that just developed since our last meeting. We have had the wife of Leopoldo López testify, and Jared Genser. Since we met, regrettably, the leading member of the democratic movement in the Venezuelan Parliament, María Corina Machado, who once visited here, is now being charged with conspiracy for murder. That is an extremely disturbing development, along with another line of repression in Venezuela.

I just want to say, because I don't want to take up any time now, that I think when we get back in the new year, we ought to look more into Venezuela and maybe produce a report on that.

This coming after what happened with Leopoldo López, there's a clear, massive repression of the democratic movement in Venezuela. I was visited by a whole series of Canadian-Venezuelan groups asking us if we can have more testimony on this issue. I'm just saying this by way of notice of what happened since we last met.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

All right. Thank you very much.

Colleagues, let's now turn to Mr. Iyakaremye.

Mr. Iyakaremye, I want to thank you for being here. I want to invite you to begin your testimony. When you have completed, we'll turn the floor over to members of the committee to ask you questions.

1:05 p.m.

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye Member, Humura Association

Thank you, honourable chair, for giving me the floor.

My name is Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye and I represent the Humura Association. This organization is headquartered in the national capital, and defends the rights of the survivors of the genocide in Rwanda.

I thank the Subcommittee on International Human Rights for having invited me to testify this afternoon on the situation of children who were born of rape following the Tutsi genocide in Rwanda.

Before speaking about that situation, I would like to make three clarifications that are important to our organization.

First, in the letter of invitation I received, you referred to the Rwandan Genocide. This isn't just a matter of semantics for the jurist in me. It is a very important question I feel the need to clarify.

As a member of the Humura Association, which is dedicated to the defence of the survivors of the Tutsi genocide, it is my duty to watch over the words that bear the memory of that genocide so that it is never forgotten. It is not the Rwandan genocide, but the Tutsi genocide. The terms have a very specific meaning. Where there is a genocide, there are victims. As everyone knows, the victims of the genocide in Rwanda were Tutsis. People talk about the Armenian genocide because under the Young Turks' regime in the Ottoman Empire, Armenians were massacred simply because they were members of the Armenian people.

In Rwanda, Tutsis were massacred by the Hutu regime. I specify that everywhere I go because this is an aberration. Who would have killed the Rwandans? The Hutu Rwandans murdered the Tutsi Rwandans. And so we cannot talk about a Rwandan genocide. Imagine if people talked about the German, Austrian or Polish—I could go on—genocide, or even about the European genocide. This would make no sense whatsoever. And so I must specify that it was the Tutsi genocide.

The second clarification is the following: I was asked to say a few words about the Rwandan crisis. Once again, it is not a Rwandan crisis. A crisis is a brutal and violent situation, of course, whether on the economic or social fronts. War crimes, for instance, may also be considered a crisis. In the case of genocide, we do not talk about a crisis because a genocide is prepared. It is not a spontaneous event.

Here is the third clarification I would like to make. The rape of Tutsi women during the genocide in Rwanda was not a weapon of war. I need to specify that because a lot of people think that it was a weapon of war.

No, the Tutsi genocide did not take place in the same region or the same theatre as the war. The war took place in one part of the country and the genocide was perpetrated in another. So it was not a weapon of war, but quite simply a crime of envy.

Now that I have made those three clarifications, I would like us to adopt the terms I have just mentioned. Otherwise, without knowing it, we are just bringing grist to the mill of the deniers, according to whom there were two genocides: the Tutsi genocide committed by the Hutus and the Hutu genocide committed by the Tutsis. They say, among other things, that the two make up the Rwandan genocide. So, by using the expression “Rwandan genocide”, you are supporting the case of the deniers, without knowing it. So there you have it.

I will now get to the core of my testimony, which concerns the situation of the children born of the rapes that took place during the Tutsi genocide. Twenty years after the genocide, these young people, as you can appreciate, are living in a very difficult situation. First of all, they are rejected by their mothers because they are a daily reminder of the suffering and atrocities they endured during those difficult moments. The very fact of seeing those children reminds them of all of that. Most of these women spend whole days crying.

Secondly, these children are also rejected by the surviving members of their mothers' families, who consider them strangers. This situation is very difficult to accept for the genocide survivors. They lost their family members and they have in their family children whose fathers were the perpetrators of the atrocities.

Thirdly, these youngters are rejected by their peers, who consider them not only bastards, but the children of those who committed the genocide.

Fourthly, these children are rejected by the state itself. In fact, they are not entitled to benefit from the advantages the survivors of the genocide have, such as the school children and universities students whose studies are paid for by the Fonds d'assistance aux rescapés du génocide, the FARG, an aid fund for genocide survivors. In other words, these children are not recognized as survivors of the genocide. As you will understand, it is very difficult for them to survive in such a situation.

Some mothers did not tell their children that they were the result of collective rapes. You must remember that these women, because they were raped by several individuals, do not even know the father in many cases. It is a difficult situation for the mother as well as for the child.

I read an article yesterday where they talked about a woman who rather than telling her son that he was the child of the genocide perpetrators, had preferred to tell him that he did not have a father.

Is that possible? No, of course not.

So, in the main, that is the situation of those children.

I will be happy to answer questions and provide further details if needed.

Thank you.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Scott Reid

Thank you.

There is enough time left for everyone to have six minutes.

Mr. Schellenberger will go first.

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here today and for clearing us up on a few of our technicalities.

Do you know how many survivors of the Rwandan genocide currently reside in Canada?

1:15 p.m.

Member, Humura Association

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye

Do you mean among those children?

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

No, all survivors of the genocide.

1:20 p.m.

Member, Humura Association

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye

Very well.

The exact number of survivors is not known because most of them are not a part of our organizations. There is the Humura association here in Ottawa, and the Page-Rwanda association in Montreal. Those are the two main organizations. Where there are a lot of survivors of the Tutsi genocide, there are associations like the one in Quebec, but they do not have official names as such. They meet in the month of April to commemorate the genocide. There are also organizations in Edmonton and Toronto. The two recognized organizations are Humura in the national capital and Page-Rwanda in Montreal.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Are there survivors of rape here in Canada? For instance, children of rape; are they part of the refugees who have come here?

1:20 p.m.

Member, Humura Association

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye

I do not know any. In fact, we don't know how many women were raped, but I think it is fair to say that almost all Tutsi women who were in Rwanda during the genocide were raped. Rape was the general rule and non-rape was the exception. So as far as I know there are no children born of those rapes who came here to Canada. However, I know some of the mothers, women who were raped during the Tutsi genocide.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Why would there not be some of those people here as refugees? Was it selective, the refugees who came here?

1:20 p.m.

Member, Humura Association

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye

No, not at all. We cannot choose the refugees because they come on their own. These young people are not here because they are still young. The eldest among them are barely 19; they are not yet 20.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Are all the refugees here in Canada Tutsis?

1:20 p.m.

Member, Humura Association

Jean-Bosco Iyakaremye

Not at all. There are also Hutus who came here as refugees