It has to go through—
Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was support.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was support.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
It has to go through Parliament, in fact, but as far as we are concerned, it is satisfactory as is.
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
And are the incidents that are occurring now in Colombia satisfactory as well? Are you aware of what is going on in Columbia?
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Did you know that thousands of people have been killed, kidnapped, threatened? Do you feel that any consideration should be given to matters that pertain to values that are important to Canadians, such as, for example, democracy and freedom? This is what underpins my question. Do you want a free trade agreement at any cost, regardless of the values that are not respected?
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
You can look at this issue from two different angles. If we shut the door, is that going to improve the situation for these people? We believe that it is by opening these markets up and by dealing with other countries that situations like that pertaining to human rights—
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Would you agree that these violations should continue systematically?
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
If you shut the door, will that stop them from occurring?
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Did Barack Obama not shut the door? That is why I have asked you the question. At present, the United States and neighbouring countries have made this an important topic of discussion but your association appears not to be too concerned about what's happening there. You appear to think that these people should be able to do what they want, kill people as they see fit.
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
No, no. I will give you an example of what I mean. If you had asked us whether we wanted to sign an agreement with Korea in the 1950s, everyone would have said—
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I am talking to you about Colombia, where the human rights record is the worst in the world.
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
Yes, but I would ask you the question again: if you shut the door—
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
I apologize. As far as we are concerned, we believe that it is not by shutting the door or by further isolating these people that we will resolve their problem.
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Would you agree that the issue of human rights needs to be resolved before this free trade agreement can come into force?
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
That would be the ideal situation, but, in practical terms, is that feasible? I do not know.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
November 17th, 2009 / 11:35 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I'm very tempted to give Monsieur Desnoyers some of my time. He's very effective in this committee.
Thank you, Mr. Pomerleau. You are aware of the reasons why this agreement has now been before the House for eight months, and that the House of Commons has not even brought it to committee. This is a very problematic agreement.
We have another report coming out this week that shows an 80% increase in cases of torture by the military arm of the Colombian regime from 2003 to 2008. There is not a single report that has not been commissioned by the Colombian government that actually points to significant increases in the last couple of years on human rights violations. For all those reasons, this is no doubt a complete repudiation of Canadian values. That's why it's so problematic.
The government has been trying to set a business case. Their argument has been kind of difficult. The grain growers came before this committee and said they actually preferred a multilateral agreement. The beef industry came forward, and they're talking about $6 million in sales. You're talking about $6 million in a global scale of $2.7 billion. Let's be clear that this is marginal, particularly when you include South Korea. You're talking about markets that will make a significant difference.
We'll put aside all the torture and human rights abuses and get to the business case of what this government should be doing to support the pork industry. We heard testimony this spring from Canada Pork International about an incredibly tiny budget of $5.5 million over five years for marketing Canadian pork. This is for an industry of $2.7 billion. You indicated earlier, in response to Liberal questions, that it's now $17 million over four years. We're talking about $4 million a year. The Australians put $100 million into marketing their beef and pork industries.
You're here, and the government's trying to desperately push whatever business case they can. In any judgemental Canadian's eyes—Canadians who look at what the business results are compared to the incredible downside on human rights--they're actually making the Bloc's case and the NDP's case more effectively.
If Australia is putting in $100 million to fund their beef and pork industries, what is the U.S. putting in? What would Canada need to put in to be at a level playing field? Rather than trying to push this incredibly irresponsible, privileged trading agreement with a regime that has increased its level of torture, and where human rights violations are increasing, what should this government be doing to invest in and really support our pork industry?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
The U.S. government announced last week that they are giving $18 million a year to the U.S. Meat Export Federation to promote both pork and beef.
I mentioned earlier that it's nice to promote, but market access is always our major problem. A point is China right now, where we've been actively shut out because of H1N1. Russia was a major market for us, but they are now using what I would call non-scientifically-based standards to block our exports to the point where most of our plants, especially those in Quebec, are completely shut out of Russia. We have yet to convince India to negotiate a veterinary agreement. We now have rumours from South Africa that they could use a technical barrier to block our exports. It goes on and on.
If we wanted to give it a real short-term boost right now, we would do a lot of work on market access and really go around the world and talk to our trade partners to resolve all the outstanding market access issues.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Okay. Coming back to funding, you're saying the $18 million to the meat and pork industries is in addition to the current $40 million that Mr. Ted Haney told us about on April 2 before this committee. So we're now talking about a $60-million budget for the Americans to support their beef and pork industries.
Mr. Heney said that in addition to that they have concession on rental rates for international offices and shared resources available out of agricultural trade offices. None of those collateral supports exist for Canadian industry. We're saying there's a $60-million base for the U.S., plus all of these additional supports, Australia gives $100 million, and the cheap Conservative Canadian government gives $4 million a year to the pork industry. That's shameful.
Are there any additional supports that the pork industry gets?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
Do you mean in terms of funding for exports? No. But at the same time, I wish to say that we work very closely with the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade as well as with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to resolve, as much as possible, all the market access issues. But they have very limited resources.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
My next set of questions is on the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, because there's been a lot of concern about real cutbacks at the CFIA. Canadians are increasingly concerned, because this government doesn't seem to take its responsibility for food inspection seriously. To what degree do you feel that the CFIA is underfunded right now?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
I shouldn't say that they are underfunded as far as exports are concerned. The point is that right now the minister has announced the market access secretariat. It's being funded right now, and they are filling the positions. But at the same time, they have allowed the CFIA to fill back those positions. In our case, we are lucky to see more resources allocated to exports, especially pork exports. The key is that it takes time to structure the organization. Hopefully, it will be operational by the end of this year.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
