International Trade Committee on Sept. 27th, 2012

[Jacques Pomerleau]

Based on our experience in other markets, it will start.... It has started, because some of them say that Canada is not serious about having a steady market, so they have already started to look at the Americans. It has already started. However, to be significant, it usually takes about four to six months after the implementation of the agreement by the other party.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's an interesting point, that their view is that we're not serious about having a steady market because we haven't implemented the FTA as yet. Yes, that's worrisome. Certainly the minister should be able to massage that one. He's doing a lot of travelling, I will admit, but maybe he should send a message as soon as this hits the House next week or shortly thereafter. That would be my recommendation, in any event.

We are supportive; at least, our party's supportive. We do need to get this done, but we do have to have proper discussions.

On the mining issue, Jennifer, I hear what you're saying. There was a lot of controversy last week over three MPs who went with a mining company to tour a mine. I was asked, and I would have gone, only I was tied up. I think criticism of those folks is wrong, and I'll defend any of them, whether they're Conservative, Liberal, or Bloc. The NDP didn't go.

I do think you need to see both sides of the issues. If I were to look at a mine with a mining company, they wouldn't sway my views, but I would want to see if it were possible to go with a union group and see their side of the story too. I just want to lay that on the table, because I think the flak we get for trying to get more information is absolutely wrong.

In terms of this particular agreement, the bottom line for me is this: from your perspective, do we make things worse or better with an FTA between Canada and Panama in terms of the mining industry? Where I sit, I think we make it better. I think we've got more say in the country, in terms of saying they have to do more in mining, more in terms of regulation, protection, enforcement, etc., for mining.

How do you see a free trade agreement between Canada and Panama compromising our position in terms of thinking that there should be corporate social responsibility for mines?

[Jennifer Moore]

I think the Canadian government would do better to focus on creating some strong regulations to provide more significant oversight of the overseas mining industry, rather than focusing on promoting these sorts of investment agreements, which do not have any significant mechanism to ensure further protection for the environment or for workers or affected communities. They provide an additional mechanism for the mining industry to access international tribunals in the case of disputes and a sense of greater legal stability for them to stand on, which I don't think does anything to respond to the situations in the country.

What I heard from the two witnesses who spoke on Tuesday is some ambiguity about even the extent to which it matters to them, in the context such as Panama, where things are already very much skewed in their favour in terms of legal supports for their interests, so I'm not sure. I don't see what this does to improve our engagement or to improve the response to the conflicts and to the abuses that are happening at the hands of the Canadian mining industry in a country like Panama.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

As the pork producers just said, a lot of players are involved here, and one of the problems is everybody's in there for self-interest. We understand that, but do you think it's not best if you have an economic relationship that's important to their country and important to us? Do you not think it would make more sense to have an agreement, and then we would work in parallel on those other issues that you're talking about?

I agree with you 100%. One of the problems I have with labour and environment is there are no enforcement procedures—there should be, and there aren't—but do you not think it's better to do the agreement and then work in parallel to try to do what you're asking?

[Jennifer Moore]

I don't think whether this agreement is in existence or not is going to make a difference in whether or not there is Canadian mining in Panama.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Hiebert. You have seven minutes.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I thought it was five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

It's seven minutes. I'll give you five if you want.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

That's probably all I need.

I'll start with Ms. Moore. I listened with interest, Ms. Moore, to your responses to the questions of my colleague Mr. Cannan, and found it quite interesting that you couldn't provide an example of a mining operation or an agreement that MiningWatch has actually supported or endorsed.

It begs me to question the balance of your organization if you can't find some examples of an institution that's actually doing something good, or an agreement that Canada has with some other country that actually protects the environment to your satisfaction.

Do you want to try answering that question again, or is it pretty much clear that there is nothing you can support?

[Jennifer Moore]

I believe I provided three examples. We have seen some significant improvements in terms of independent environmental oversight with regard to the Ekati diamond mine in the Northwest Territories. We have seen some significant advances in the nature of the impact benefit agreement with regard to the Raglan mine in northern Quebec. The environmental assessment process with regard to Voisey's Bay also showed some significant modifications in the way those developments have happened.

We engage in a lot of different spaces, and I think in a very positive way in terms of coming with proposals on what can constructively be done. We're also not shy of saying when things are actually eroding and making life harder for the workers and communities that are affected.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I definitely get the sense that you're not shy on that side.

Are you saying that you've publicly endorsed the Ekati, Raglan, and Voisey's Bay mines? Have you made public statements to that effect?

[Jennifer Moore]

I was not around when those things were happening. I do know that we have referred to those as examples in different spaces and in different conversations.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

You've referred to them as positive examples, as ones that you've endorsed, like the—

[Jennifer Moore]

They are ones that my colleagues refer to and have guided me to, yes.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay.

Just before I move on to Mr. Pomerleau, you mentioned that MiningWatch was formed in 1999 and that it's a collection of environmental, social justice, and indigenous organizations. Could you just give me the names of those organizations and the source of funding that you receive from those organizations?

[Jennifer Moore]

There are 24 different organizations. The list is available on our website. We could run through all of those. Eighty percent of our funding comes from a wide range of foundations, as well as from some of our member organizations.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

And the other 20%?

[Jennifer Moore]

I believe the 20% is from our member organizations and about 80% from different foundations.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

You said 20% comes from the founding members and 80% from foundations. Would those all be Canadian foundations, or are they from other countries?

[Jennifer Moore]

No, they're not all Canadian foundations.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Can you give me a breakdown as to how many would be domestic and how many would be foreign?

[Jennifer Moore]

No, I don't have that off the top of my head.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Is it maybe 50:50? Do you have no idea?

[Jennifer Moore]

I'm not sure. You can look at our annual report. It's very transparent in that regard.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I was looking for it, actually, on the CRA website, and I wasn't able to find it, so that's why I'm asking.