Probably about 700 or 800.
Evidence of meeting #15 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
Evidence of meeting #15 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
5:10 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
Probably about 700 or 800.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
Yes. Well no, I should maybe correct that.
In our industry, the consolidation is about 2.5% to 3% per year. It's the same as the United States without supply management.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Okay. So we're probably seeing consolidation in the grain sector too.
Profitability isn't the factor in whether we keep the number of farmers on the farm. A variety of economic things happen in that decision and a lot of personal things can go into that decision too. I'm excited that your sons want to come back, that's a good sign. We're seeing that in the grain sector too. I'm curious, they must be excited about having unfettered access into Europe. As they look at their dairy herd, they're saying they could add another 30 cows or 60 cows—I'm not sure of the size of your herd—and they don't have to buy quota because now they can ship into Europe. Isn't that a positive thing for you to be looking at?
5:10 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
It's exciting if that is correct. I'm not sure if it is. Because my understanding is that it is not. We do not have unfettered access, and I hope—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
We had the European commissioner in front of us just this last week. And that's the selling point she made. Yes, you give up 16,000 tonnes of cheese, which is less than the consumption growth we have in the cheese market in Canada by the way. So it's giving up an opportunity, you're not giving up actual quota or anything else, but you're also getting unfettered access into Europe.
So I'm looking at that and saying it's great, this is a win-win in so many ways. And yes, there is some give-and-take for the first five years, but the reality is the growth in Canadian consumption in that fine cheese market is growing at such a pace that you're going to be supplying even more and having to have more quota available to take care of the market increases that are coming forward. Is that not fair to say?
5:15 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
No, it's not fair to say.
5:15 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
It's not fair to say that at all.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Okay.
Does anybody else have anything on that question—or am I pretty well done there, Mr. Chair?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I'll use those 20 seconds.
I want to talk to you, Mr. Van Keulen, about the unfettered access. I believe this paper was produced by the dairy farmers, but they did the analysis on the WTO panel and stated:
The WTO panel determined that milk sold by farmers and destined to the export market at prices below the domestic market price constitute an export subsidy. The conclusion in this paper was in fact that Canadian dairy farmers would not be able to take advantage of this so-called unfettered access.
Is that your interpretation of this as well?
5:15 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
Yes. In terms of the ruling, to my understanding of the way it is, if we sell anything into the European market or into any market—we'll talk about the TPP tomorrow—and it is below our domestic price, what we sell retail here, it is considered a subsidy.
That's the problem we have. If we wish to capture that European market and we go in there for less than what we sell retail or wholesale here, it is determined to be a subsidy by the Europeans. That's the problem. You have unfettered access if you lower your domestic price to the European price.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
In fact this analysis says that we currently have access for aged cheddar cheese into Europe, but we “do not fill that TRQ”. So it's difficult to see how this so-called unfettered access will be unfettered access.
You mentioned supply management a couple of times. We heard from a couple of different witnesses today that they see supply management as being a barrier to unfettered access. Can you comment on that?
5:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
5:15 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
No, it's just a matter of how much time we have.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I'm on the shorter round here. I get only five minutes—plus 20 seconds.
5:15 p.m.
Board Member, British Columbia Dairy Association
Okay.
It's not a barrier, it's a scapegoat. We keep hearing that from the high-tech industry, or the beef industry, that it's....
You know, people want access to our market because it is a captured market. They don't have to compete against anybody else in the world to come into our market. They just compete against us Canadians. Anybody who comes in and has access into our market.... So everybody wants in. I think the worst thing that can happen to anybody, to the Americans or the Europeans, is that they destroy supply management, because then the golden goose is gone for them.
