Evidence of meeting #49 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was smes.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jared Walker  Managing Editor, SocialFinance.ca, and Communications Associate, MaRS Centre for Impact Investing
Aliya Ramji  Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1
Jim Reynolds  President and Chief Executive Officer, Padre Software Inc.
Neil Lang  Chief Operating Officer, Corvus Energy

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Randy Hoback

Good afternoon, everybody. It's great to see you here after a week back in your constituencies.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are here for our study on small and medium-sized enterprises.

I want to start with our first two witnesses. From the MaRS Centre for Impact Investing, we welcome Jared Walker. Following Jared, we'll move on to Ms. Aliya Ramji, the director of legal and business strategy. She's appearing via video conference from Toronto.

We'll start off with you, Jared, and then we'll move on to Aliya from there.

3:35 p.m.

Jared Walker Managing Editor, SocialFinance.ca, and Communications Associate, MaRS Centre for Impact Investing

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good afternoon, everyone.

Good afternoon, dear friends.

I greatly appreciate the invitation to participate in this conversation today. I'm only one person sitting before you, but I know that my remarks are an accurate reflection of the options and experiences of 130 certified B corporations across this country and the quickly growing market of impact-driven entrepreneurs who can be found in cities, towns, and villages throughout Canada.

I'm excited that the committee has chosen to include this perspective as part of your study on trade policies that will best support Canadian SMEs as they start, scale, and create the well-paying, sustainable jobs of the 21st-century Canadian economy.

I have a few bits of quick context for my comments. First, it's important to recognize the role of the MaRS Discovery District in this work. Second, I'll speak to exactly what “B corp” is here in Canada and beyond. After that I'll unpack a couple of direct policy implications that you may want to consider.

I'm based out of the MaRS Discovery District in Toronto, specifically within the MaRS Centre for Impact Investing. MaRS opened in 2005, under the visionary guidance of the late Dr. John Evans, as a platform to accelerate the kind of Canadian-based innovation that will help build our nation's new economy and support society at large. Within this mandate, the Centre for Impact Investing is poised and tasked with the mobilizing of private capital for public good. As a part of this mission, MaRS CII became the first global partner organization in B corp, the benefit corporation movement, in 2010.

B corp started in 2006 out of the U.S. with a commitment to providing transparent third-party metrics around the social and environmental impact of businesses of every shape, size, sector, and geographic location. B corp certification provides the same sort of accountability as a LEED building certification or an organic verification, but rather than focusing on one kind of practice area, B corp provides accountability around the impact of an entire company, from worker treatment to community involvement, from environmental footprint to governance and transparency. The big idea here is that while government institutions and non-profit organizations clearly have a role to play in ensuring the social and environmental well-being of our society, we'll actually need to expect more of our business community if we are to successfully face the ever-growing, complex problems that confront us in the century ahead. Even if governments and non-profits use their finances at an efficiency rate of 100%, it would only account for roughly 20% of global spending, and 20¢ on the dollar isn't good enough anymore. To overcome the problems we face, we'll need to engage the innovation and the energy of some section of 80% of global capital that is held by for-profit businesses.

The more practical and immediate reality is that throughout the business world, we measure the things that matter to us. If we are ever to take things like community involvement, worker treatment, or environmental sustainability seriously, we'll have to move beyond excusing these things as nice but fuzzy intangibles. We believe there need to be standards of measure that will help consumers, investors, workers, and governments to delineate between good marketing and truly good companies. B corp seeks to create this sort of measurement that serves to be both rigorous to the applicant while providing instant, easy-to-understand clarity for external stakeholders and observers.

Over the past several years, B corp has created tools for the investment community used by the likes of such global institutions as Prudential, J.P. Morgan, UBS, and others, as well as Vancouver giants like Vancity Capital and impact investment guru Joel Solomon's renewal fund. We've created partnerships with some of the world's leading business schools, such as Columbia, Yale, NYU, and Northwestern, because these academic trusts have seen a clear, growing trend towards impact-driven business within their student bodies. Most importantly, we've built a community of more than 1,200 businesses in 38 countries across more than 120 different sectors that have publicly declared, measured, and reported on their commitments to community, to workers, and to the environment, each calling themselves certified B corps.

That last number of 120 sectors is the figure that I find most compelling, because 120 sectors is not by any stretch of the imagination a niche. Within 120 sectors we have some version of most any kind of business you can think of, from conscious health food to sustainable junk food, from community newspapers to green energy suppliers; dish soap, tea bags, law firms, and ad agencies. We have some basic rules against weapons of mass destruction and child labour, but otherwise you're likely to find a B corp in nearly any field you can think of. These are good businesses. They make good money, and they solve some of society's pressing problems along the way.

You can find these impact-driven companies in the Canadian Prairies, where Step Forward Paper is revolutionizing an industry through the development of an affordable wheat straw-based paper. You may wear one of the lapel pins that I heard the Government of Canada gave to every MP last year in support of Lucky Iron Fish, a Guelph-based business that's working to end iron deficiency, which is a major maternal health issue in the developing world.

In the west, you might drink Ethical Bean Coffee from Vancouver in the morning, or grab a lunch at the iconic Save On Meats deli in Vancouver's downtown eastside. In the Maritimes, it's hard to miss Pickaroons brewery. Their beer is giving back a portion of revenue to non-profits and community organizations across New Brunswick. All of this is to say that B corps are everywhere.

If you've never heard of the official title before, I can almost guarantee you that a B corp has already touched your life in some way, shape, or form. Beyond some of the really big names, like Ben and Jerry's ice cream, Patagonia clothing, Beau's All Natural beer down in Vankleek Hill, or Trico Homes, there are impact-driven business leaders making significant money while making an amazing difference in the communities around us.

While I believe the stories behind these companies are compelling to average citizens all across Canada, I think there should be specific interest within this committee because of these businesses and tens of thousands of other SMEs across Canada. They aren't operating within a bubble. We operate as part of a global market and we ignore global market trends at our own peril.

I don't want to get too caught up on dry facts and figures, but I will share a handful of data points with you, not because any one of these observations is absolute, but because taken in sum it presents a clear narrative. In North America, 70 million people self-identify as conscious consumers, and 73% of consumers at large care about the company and not just the product when making a purchasing decision. Also, 90% of consumers say that companies must not only say that a product or service is beneficial, but they must prove it. The reason they have to prove it is because IBM's annual trust study says that only 17% of consumers trust manufacturers.

All of this is playing out in a reality where 75% of the global workforce, by 2025, will be comprised of millennials who look like me and who report that they want to work for organizations that make a positive contribution to society. If all of that weren't incentive enough, we also know that companies with higher levels of employee engagement and strong corporate culture outperform the S&P 500 by more than twofold.

The narrative I see emerging from this data set is clear. First, the market pull towards impact-driven businesses exists, and third-party accountability is desired and necessary. Second, it is within this market that we've seen 28 U.S. jurisdictions—27 states and D.C.—pass benefit corporation legislation over the past four years. Legislators of all stripes have been behind this push, as evidenced by the fact that in 18 of these states the votes were unanimous to pass that legislation. Through this legislation, companies can now incorporate their operations as B corps, the same way they would a C corp, an S corp, or an LLC.

As a general sign of support for Canadian SMEs within this emerging global market, which I believe Canadians are well positioned to lead within, I would urge the members of this committee to take seriously the potential of this distinct market for Canadian business; take seriously the need for firm definitions around terms that seem hazy, like social entrepreneurship, social enterprise, and social procurement; and, please take seriously the need for clear and accountable metrics whenever we're evaluating claims of impact.

For a more long-term policy decision or conversation, I'd ask you to consider the potential implications of Canada's number one trading partner soon having 40 to 45 jurisdictions with a set of consistent definitions around these impact terms, consistent mechanisms for measurement, and consistent accountability structures established through benefit corporation legislation options.

As the Canadian Bar Association recommended in their response to the 2014 review of the Canada Business Corporations Act, our team also believes that federal benefit corporation legislation in Canada would be a powerful sign of support for, and stimulant of, impact-driven business in Canada.

We, at B Corp Canada, appreciate the opportunity you have afforded us in speaking here today. Please consider me a resource on the issue for the rest of our short time together here, and consider our team as a continuing asset for each of you and your teams going forward.

Thanks for your time, your energy, and your consideration. I welcome your questions both now and in the future.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Randy Hoback

Thank you, Mr. Walker.

We'll now move on to figure 1.

Ms. Aliya Ramji, you have the floor, for 10 minutes, please.

3:40 p.m.

Aliya Ramji Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the invitation to speak on behalf of Figure 1 this afternoon.

By way of background, Figure 1 is a photo-sharing platform for health care professionals. The network is designed for individual health care professionals to share de-identified medical photographs with each other. It is a MobileFirst crowd-sourced platform onto which health care professionals can upload medical images of injuries, signs of illness, and/or any other images in a privacy-compliant way to the Figure 1 community. Physicians and other health care professionals use Figure 1 throughout their work flow. The platform is available for iPhone, iPad, and android devices, and on the web.

Just last week, alongside giant companies like Suncor Energy and Loblaw, Figure 1 was named as one of the 15 most innovative Canadian companies of 2015.

Figure 1 was founded by three Canadians: Dr. Joshua Landy, a critical care specialist here in Toronto; Gregory Levey, a professor of communications with a background in both law and business; and Richard Penner, a deeply technical full stack developer who focuses on mobile apps. Figure 1 has well over 150,000 users worldwide and is adding more than 5,000 new users each week. It is present at 38 of the top 50 medical schools in North America. Figure 1 launched in North America in May 2013, in the U.K. in September 2013, and in Ireland in December of that year. It followed with launches in Australia and New Zealand in January 2014, and South Africa in November 2014, and this past December and January it launched in Europe. It launched in India in February and will soon be launching in South America. To date, we have launched in over 45 countries around the globe.

I would like to share with you some of our experiences with the Canadian consular offices, following which I will make one recommendation to the committee.

We first reached out to the Canadian regional trade commissioner's office in Toronto in November 2014. We found the Toronto regional office to be extremely helpful and able to connect us with different professionals around the globe, including lawyers, health care professionals, and agents. Suzanne Drisdelle of the offices in Toronto has been our key point of contact. She has connected us with consular offices around the world, including consular offices and embassies in France, Italy, Germany, India, and the U.S. We have met with several trade commissioners, including John Zimmerman, the consul and senior trade commissioner in Silicon Valley, and Richard Bale in Mumbai. John, Richard, and their respective staffs have been very helpful and have acted as local champions for us.

Figure 1 was the recipient of a Soft Landing grant that was helpful for our first in-country launch which took place in India last month. It allowed us to be on the ground in India and to connect with health care professionals face to face. We recently participated in Dose of the Valley and will be participating in 48 Hours in the Hub next month. We have also applied for other similar events. Our international expansion and our international success are a direct result of the innovative concept of connecting health care professionals in a space that has traditionally been disconnected, and we thank the consular offices for their work in connecting us to individuals and organizations who we would not have otherwise been connected with.

We have one recommendation to the committee. Last week Prime Minister Harper announced an expansion of the Canadian trade commissioner service. As the trade commissioner services grow around the world, we recommend that the Dose of the Valley and the 48 Hours in the Hub programs be internationalized. As you know, these programs facilitate interactions between Canadian businesses and industry experts. The programs allow for Canadian businesses to gain visibility and develop relationships within the California and Massachusetts ecosystems. Similar ecosystems exist in Europe, India, China, and Brazil, and it would be extremely valuable for businesses like ours that are expanding globally to have an opportunity to meet a large number of people and gain insight about those markets in a very short period of time.

It is difficult for small businesses with few employees to spend longer periods of time in such large jurisdictions. An organized program like Dose of the Valley and 48 Hours in the Hub would be helpful.

We hope the government can find ways to build on the support it provides. The world is a large place, and as we expand our footprint, we would appreciate further consular support around the world.

Once again, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your time, and thank you to the committee members as well. I will be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Randy Hoback

Thank you to both witnesses. We'll move on to a round of questions.

In our first round, Mr. Davies, you have the floor for seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Walker, and thank you, Ms. Ramji, for being with us today.

I will address my first question to you, Mr. Walker, if I may. The Conference Board came out with a report today that focused on trade, particularly between Canada and the Asian market. Among the many findings in that report are that Canada, in the view of the Conference Board, is still far too dependent on the export of raw materials, such as coal, precious metals, and pulp. They pointed out three areas that they thought were key to maintaining or improving our market share in the Asian region: increasing Canadian investment in Asia, increasing the export of services, and, third, increasing value-added products.

Do you have any advice or comments on the findings of the Conference Board that you could share with us in that regard?

3:45 p.m.

Managing Editor, SocialFinance.ca, and Communications Associate, MaRS Centre for Impact Investing

Jared Walker

With regard to increasing investment in Asia, I think this is an excellent time to think about the future and the kinds of policies and economic systems that we'd like to share. This is one area where the west can lead.

A number of great B corps—and this is also a small plug for the MaRS work that we do generally—operate in Asia and are not just businesses, but businesses with character, and businesses that pay attention to environmental impacts and to making sure that development is holistic and not just slanted to one side of the ledger.

I would say that B corp, in being very mindful of the types of investments that we make, is of prime importance. A great example of this is actually our MaRS INFRONT program. We work with fund managers in emerging markets. We bring fund managers in emerging markets together with senior VC from the west. The idea is to be able to increase the amount of funds travelling to small and medium-sized enterprises that are doing good work on the ground in developing countries.

I think this is a real important strategy to pursue more generally. This is something that DFATD does in partnership with Sarona Asset Management, MaRS, and the folks at MEDA. It's in its pilot stage right now. This is our first year, with our first fund managers under tuition, so to speak, but this is something to be certainly considered and expanded.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Walker, could you advise this committee of anything that you think the federal government could do? Is there any policy, initiative, or support that you would like to see the Canadian government adopt and that would help your group in furthering its objective?

3:50 p.m.

Managing Editor, SocialFinance.ca, and Communications Associate, MaRS Centre for Impact Investing

Jared Walker

B corps legislation is the first and obvious thing on the docket. As I said before, there are 28 jurisdictions in the U.S. with it: 27 states and Washington, D.C. There are, if my memory serves me correctly, 12 states with legislation before the state houses at present. This is not by any means a niche or something that is going away. It's something that's scaling.

Canada has been a very big leader. We're number two in B corps in the world right now, but as a competitive piece, Brazil is catching up. I would say that if we had benefit corp legislation, it would be incredibly helpful.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

Ms. Ramji, congratulations on your business. I noted that in the same Conference Board report, they point out that China in particular has expressed interest in Canadian medical health services and technology. I think your product and technology will be of major interest to China, which is, as you know, Canada's number two trading partner.

Are there any barriers that your company has faced in penetrating export markets in the world?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

I'm not sure there are barriers, but there are things that take up more time than others to launch in different countries. For example, we are privacy compliant in every jurisdiction we work in. We're compliant with all the legislation in every jurisdiction. Really, the reason we can't get out to market faster is that we are trying to make sure that we're compliant with every jurisdiction we're in.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Do you have any advice? I'll ask you a similar question that I asked Mr. Walker.

Is there anything that you would like to see the federal government adopt, any policy or program that would help a business like yours more effectively penetrate export markets?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

As my recommendation stated, we favour any programs that would allow us to meet with people from the industry, whether in health care, pharma, general businesses, or general health care professionals in those particular jurisdictions.

Dose of the Valley is a great example providing us with the ability to meet many people at the same time. It's a 48 hour program.

Because of the small team that we have, we can't spend weeks or months in a particular jurisdiction on the ground, so anything you could help us with to further those interactions would be very helpful.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

You mentioned the importance of trade commissioner service.

Do you find the trade commissioner tools and resources available here in Canada sufficient, or would you like to see those improved in any way here in Canada or abroad?

3:50 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

We've had great reception at the Canadian Trade Commissioner Service. As I said, Suzanne, our main point of contact, has been very, very helpful. I'm not sure she could do any more with the resources she has. We're very fortunate to have her on our team.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Do tariffs play any role in your business? Do you run into any kinds of tariffs, duties, or market impediments in marketing your product abroad?

3:55 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

Not yet, and the reason being is that we are a mobile platform, so other than the duties that we would pay, for example, at an app store, we don't face any tariffs or duties.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Randy Hoback

Mr. Leung, for seven minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Thank you, Chair.

My question is actually addressed to both of you, but I'll direct it to Ms. Ramji first.

You are aware that our government is really targeting the Asia-Pacific region as an export market, and are trying to negotiate many foreign investment protection agreements as well as free trade agreements.

If you are a beneficiary of this, for example in Korea or even China, can you share with this committee what your opinion is of those agreements?

3:55 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

Thus far, we haven't been the beneficiary of any of those agreements, so I have very limited comment on that.

Hopefully, there will be technology—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Let me then go to the next one, are you in the Asia-Pacific region? Which market are you in?

3:55 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

We launched in India last month, which is our gateway to the Asian market. We're hoping that by the end of the year we'll be around the globe.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

In getting into the Asian or Indian market, do you experience any tariff or non-tariff barriers compared to entering a new market in the United States or some European countries?

3:55 p.m.

Director, Legal and Business Strategy, Figure 1

Aliya Ramji

The difference between some of the Asian markets and the European and U.S. markets is just a factor of how far we are from them. We just don't have as much exposure to the health care professionals in those particular time zones. I don't see any barriers, tariffs, or duties in those markets that are different from anything we've seen in Europe and the U.S.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Mr. Walker, would you please comment on that, whether you are in those markets and whether you experience tariff or non-tariff barriers at all?