Evidence of meeting #98 for International Trade in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Partner, Deloitte
I will once I consult and make sure that there is no privileged information there in terms of the people's names.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
I'm a little disappointed that you don't have them today. Mr. Gallivan, despite the majority of his testimony not sitting well with a lot of Canadians who were tuning in, at least had prepped for some of those questions.
I would think that from watching the testimony, as you said you did, you would have had that subcontractor list with you. I hope that is not something that would take too long, because with the implementation date being 35 days away, I think it's important that we get as many of the facts as possible out in the open.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Okay. Wonderful.
At what date were you aware of the contingency plan that Mr. Gallivan spoke about on Tuesday?
5 p.m.
Partner, Deloitte
There has always been a contingency plan as part of the overall program.
As I mentioned, we've been rehearsing the actual cutover, the movement to the new system. This is the sixth time that we've actually rehearsed it. The team is actually working through what we call “mock six”, which is six mock—
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
When you came on in 2020, you knew that there was a contingency plan that was going to roll back the system if it didn't work.
5 p.m.
Partner, Deloitte
The contingency plan is always part of an overall plan for a project, yes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
The first day they present it in front of you—“here's a contingency plan”—you know that's what's going to happen if it doesn't go live.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Why not share that with the business community? It seems odd that they had to find out about it on Tuesday—that basically a $438-million project would essentially be scrapped if there were no contingency plan.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Would your testimony be that it was a poor decision on Mr. Gallivan's part to not share that with the business community?
5 p.m.
Partner, Deloitte
All I can tell you is that there has been a contingency plan in place. We continue to practise that contingency plan, and the team is actually going through the sixth version of that right now.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
On the contingency plan that you were aware of in 2020 when you came on, on your first day at work, they told you it's to roll back the system.
5 p.m.
Partner, Deloitte
The contingency plan has been in the project plan for.... I can't tell you the exact date, but it's been in the project plan for—
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Partner, Deloitte
It's the entire contingency plan. It includes the entire cutover. The number of dates and days for the cutover obviously has evolved over time, but it's the full contingency plan.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Having spent 13 years in international trade, I understand the anxieties the trade community is facing, as we heard today, with no written transition plans. I know that the motion that will be presented shortly will help clarify this for some of our trade partners.
We heard about the requirements for importers to get their own security or release bond today. Why is the CBSA asking for this? Has there been a rationale presented to the members here?
5:05 p.m.
Past Chair, Canadian Association of Importers and Exporters
I can certainly jump in and start on that.
We're very confused about this one. We started a conversation on this one I think back in 2010. I'm looking to my colleague Candace. We have documents from that time. Customs did a very extensive review on that and came to the trade community and said that they would not be requiring financial security any more.
You can only imagine our surprise when we went from not having any financial security to how everyone would have to be secured. Some of that early communication was that's it's going to be 100%. We've since negotiated down to 50%.
We feel that we should negotiate down to 0% on the GST for sure, but also look towards the options that my other colleagues talked about. Why are we now making all of these importers do that?
I was interested to hear Mr. Gallivan's comments, because when he was asked, “How could we support you?”, he did actually request that would be one: that it might be helpful if they could have a third party.
Again, it's surprising to hear that, because they've already used third parties to take a look at that, and we just get these edicts. I'm a little bit perplexed. Maybe my colleagues can weigh in on that.
5:05 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Board of Directors, Canadian Society of Customs Brokers
Yes. Again, I'm happy to.
I think there was a bit of a perception that somehow by importers holding their own surety there would be a better guarantee of payment of duties and taxes to the Government of Canada.
I mean, customs brokers have initiated that capacity on behalf of importers for decades, and there's never been an issue where a customs broker has gone bankrupt—very seldom. In the last 40 years I can recall maybe one. They've always historically been tasked with collection of duties and taxes, with payment of duties and taxes. It's never been an issue.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Would this add to the cost of doing business in Canada in importing goods, in your opinion?
5:05 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Board of Directors, Canadian Society of Customs Brokers
Absolutely it will add to the cost, because now every single importer will have to pay a premium in order to obtain a surety bond. The maximum amount is still in place, but now, because GST is part of the equation, for many, many importers that will exponentially increase the amount of surety they need. That will increase the premium cost.
