Evidence of meeting #66 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bilingual.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Fraser  Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Louise Aucoin  President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law Inc.
Johane Tremblay  Director, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
William Bartlett  Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Art Hanger

I would like to call the meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to order.

It is Thursday, May 3, and our orders of the day deal with Bill C-23, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (criminal procedure, language of the accused, sentencing and other amendments).

Again, I will apologize directly to our witnesses for my late appearance, as well as Mr. Comartin's. We were listening to a very riveting story at the national prayer breakfast, and we didn't want to leave before we could get the total gist of it. But I do apologize for making everyone wait.

We have, from the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, Mr. Graham Fraser, Commissioner; and Johane Tremblay, director of the legal affairs branch. From the Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law, we have Louise Aucoin as well as Madame Côté.

Thank you all for being here. We will proceed along the order in which the witnesses are noted on the agenda, beginning with Mr. Fraser.

9:10 a.m.

Graham Fraser Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, mesdames et messieurs, thank you for giving me the opportunity to appear today to comment on Bill C-23, and more specifically on the proposed amendments to sections 530 and 530.1, which guarantee the language rights of accused persons.

As stated by the Supreme Court of Canada in Beaulac, the purpose of these provisions is to provide equal access to the courts by accused persons speaking one of the official languages of Canada in order to assist official languages minorities in preserving their cultural identity. For quite some time, the commissioner's office has identified the need to amend these provisions.

To provide some background to my comments, I should point out that Bill C-23 deals with some of the issues that were brought to light in the 1995 study by the then Commissioner of Official Languages, Victor Goldbloom, The Equitable use of English and French Before the Courts in Canada.

I am pleased to see that a number of the provisions of Bill C-23 serve to clarify and improve the language rights provisions of the Criminal Code and must be seen as advancements in that regard.

For example, Bill C-23 clarifies that the justice of the peace or provincial court judge before whom the accused first appears will ensure that the accused is advised of his or her right to a trial in the official language of choice. Currently the accused is informed of this right only if unrepresented by counsel. The extension of this right to all accused represents a positive step forward.

Furthermore, that the purpose of the proposed amendments is to codify existing jurisprudence on language rights in Canada is indeed reflected in a number of the bill's provisions.

For instance, Bill C-23 recognizes the accused's right to receive a translation of the information or indictment against him or her. This is a positive step in the direction set out by the courts. However, under the proposed amendment, the accused would have to make an application for a translation of the information or indictment even if he or she had already chosen the official language to be used at trial.

The information or indictment contains important information required for the accused to respond to the charges. The burden should not fall upon the accused to make an application for translation. He or she should have access to this as promptly as possible without having to make an application.

I recommend that clause 19 of Bill C-23, which adds proposed section 530.01, be modified accordingly.

Another issue that I wish to address today is that of bilingual trials. Under the new subsection 530(6) of the Criminal Code, introduced by subsection 18(2) of Bill C-23, where two or more accused who would otherwise be tried jointly choose to be tried in different official languages, an order that the trial be held in both official languages is warranted. The Criminal Code currently allows for courts to order bilingual trials. However, according to the relevant jurisprudence in this area of the law, for a court to make such an order, it must first be satisfied that the rights of the co-accused and the interests of justice are appropriately balanced. Because this amendment explicitly provides for circumstances in which a bilingual trial is warranted, it is my concern that it would eliminate this important balancing exercise. I therefore recommend that the proposed wording of subsection 530(6) be modified to maintain this element of judicial discretion in ordering a bilingual trial. The holding of a bilingual trial presupposes that the co-accused have a sufficient grasp of both languages to understand the proceedings. This may not always the case.

To conclude, I would like to draw your attention to two issues not specifically addressed by Bill C-23. The first pertains to the fact that the language rights provisions in the Criminal Code are restricted to the trial and preliminary inquiry stages of the criminal process. In the past, my predecessors advocated for the extension of such rights to procedures related to the trial, such as motions, jury selection and bail hearings, as well as the appeal process generally. These are critical stages of the criminal process, and have a significant impact on the outcome of the process as a whole. Without extending language rights to related proceedings, the right of the accused to a trial in his or her official language is not fully achieved. We encourage the government to examine this issue in the near future.

The second, but perhaps most important issue, pertains to the shortage of bilingual judges in provincial superior courts. As you are no doubt aware, the shortage of bilingual judges, that is judges with adequate knowledge of both English and French, constitutes one of the main barriers to access to justice in our two official languages. This problem has been identified by my predecessors since the early 1990s, and by the Department of Justice in a study entitled "Environmental Scan: Access to Justice". It still exists.

The Fédération des associations des juristes d'expression française, the Canadian Bar Association as well as Commissioner Dyane Adam raised the issue before the House Subcommittee on the Process for Appointment of the Judiciary.

In its preliminary report made public in November 2005, the subcommittee recognized the importance of modifying the process in order to remedy the problem. It is important that the superior courts have a sufficient level of institutional bilingualism in order for the accused to benefit from the language guarantees provided for in sections 530 and 530.1 of the Criminal Code. Without this capacity, the language provisions of the Criminal Code have no chance of fulfilling their objective, which is to provide the accused with the right to be tried in the official language of his or her choice.

Thank you for hearing my comments, both positive and constructive, on Bill C-23. I'm very pleased by the positive features of the bill in terms of language rights in the criminal context. However, I would ask that you consider the suggestions I've made in order to improve it, as well as my comments for further advancement in this important area.

I'd be very happy to answer any questions you may have.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Art Hanger

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

Ms. Aucoin.

9:15 a.m.

Louise Aucoin President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law Inc.

Good morning to all members of the committee.

My name is Louise Aucoin and I am the President of the Fédération des associations de juristes d'expression française de Common Law, also known as the FAJEF. With me this morning is Diane Côté, the Director of Community and Government Liaison for the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, the FCFA.

With your permission, I would like to talk to you briefly about the FAJEF. The federation is made up of seven French-speaking jurists associations and its mandate is to promote and defend the language rights of francophones in minority situations, particularly, but not exclusively, with regard to the administration of justice. The FAJEF therefore has a community mandate.

For your information, there are French-speaking jurists associations in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, and they represent approximately 1,200 French-speaking jurists. The FAJEF is also a member of the FCFA. That is the reason why Ms. Côté is here with me.

My presentation today will deal with Bill C-23, particularly with its proposed language amendments to the Criminal Code.

To begin, the FAJEF is generally pleased with the amendments to the language provisions in Bill C-23. The amendments are positive, particularly the duty to advise the accused of their right to choose the official language used during their criminal court case. That being said, the FAJEF is still concerned by a number of amendments and would like to suggest a few improvements. We have drawn up four specific recommendations.

The first recommendation deals with subsection 530(6). This subsection automatically directs trials to be bilingual—and we insist upon the word "automatic"—when co-accused choose different official languages. Although it is in the interest of justice to occasionally hold bilingual trials, the FAJEF believes that bilingual trials should not become automatic, because they can significantly weaken the accused's language rights.

The FAJEF recommends that there be a very minor amendment to the wording of subsection 530(6), namely the addition of the word "may", at the beginning. Such an amendment to the wording would allow judges to exercise their discretionary authority by either agreeing or not agreeing to a bilingual trial, in light of the specific circumstances of each case.

Our second recommendation concerns subsection 530.01(1) of the bill. This subsection provides that, once the accused has asked to be tried in an official language that is different from that of the information and indictment, the prosecutor has to, at the request of the accused—and this is an issue raised by Mr. Fraser—provide the accused with a written translation of the text. The FAJEF believes that the accused should automatically receive a translated copy of the information and indictment, rather than have to ask for it, especially since the accused would already have indicated the official language to be used during his or her trial. It is the FAJEF's view that the accused should not be required to make several requests for proceedings to be conducted in the official language of his or her choice. A single request should be sufficient.

Our third recommendation deals with paragraph 530.1(c). This paragraph allows the presiding justice or judge to authorize the prosecutor to examine or cross-examine a witness in the official language of the witness, even though it is not that of the accused or that in which the accused can best give testimony.

The FAJEF is of the view that the prosecutor should, as far as possible, use the language of the accused to examine or cross-examine a witness, although at times it may be justified for the prosecutor to examine or cross-examine a witness in a language other than that of the accused. We believe that by adding "where circumstances warrant" to the wording of paragraph 530.1(c), the discretion of the judge or justice would be better delimited so that such a practice would not become automatic.

Finally, our fourth recommendation has to do with section 531. The FAJEF is concerned about section 531 of the bill, and its application in New Brunswick in particular, because this section could lead to trials being moved from one territorial division to another for reasons of language. Given the quite unique language situation in New Brunswick, the only officially bilingual province, criminal trials are suppose to be available in both official languages in all territorial divisions of the province, without requiring the accused to be tried in another division. The FAJEF would like to see the wording of section 531 of Bill C-23 amended accordingly.

So those are FAJEF's four recommendations. However, before closing, I would like to point out that Bill C-23 raises two other concerns that we would like to see dealt with in the near future.

First, since the right to be tried in the official language of one's choosing requires there to be a minimum number of bilingual judges, the process for appointing judges to the federal bench should be changed in order to better reflect that reality. For example, the level of bilingualism of candidates should be evaluated, and the number of bilingual judges needed to ensure equal access to justice in French in Canada should be provided for in every province or region. That's definitely not the way things stand right now.

Second, it is important that language rights at trial also extend, hopefully in the near future, to all of the procedures incidental to a trial and to other forms of inquiry and hearing under the Criminal Code, such as an application for variation in a probation or conditional sentence order, a dangerous offender application, or an application for judicial review.

By way of conclusion, the FAJEF supports the linguistic amendments set out in Bill C-23, subject to the reservations we have expressed.

I would be happy to answer all of your questions. Thank you.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Art Hanger

Thank you, Madam Aucoin.

Mr. Bagnell.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

I guess I'll speak for the Liberals.

Thank you very much for coming.

It sounds to me as if all the witnesses are in agreement on three cases, for which I'll be prepared to do amendments. First is mandatory translation. Second is that trials may be unilingual and don't have to be bilingual. Third is that other processes can be captured in French. I'll be interested to hear from the government speakers if they have any reasons in their preambles to not approve those amendments. But I agree that all the witnesses are in agreement with those three areas of amendment.

I think the government's response to the one on translation is that this may be excessive, unnecessary work. These aren't huge documents.

9:25 a.m.

President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law Inc.

Louise Aucoin

I quite agree. There aren't that many French trials outside of Quebec, other than in New Brunswick. We're not talking about thousands. It would be a very short document, and there aren't that many trials in French.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

The number of documents an MP gets translated every day, almost.

9:25 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I would agree. I think this is a case where, if this right is to be guaranteed, it should be at the beginning of the process rather than something that somebody has to keep on asking for at every step. I think it's unfortunate that the way it is.... I think that once you've said you want to have your trial in French, or in Quebec in English, it ought to be automatic that the process kicks in, rather than at every stage....

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

And it's not excessive amounts.

9:30 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

No. Well, I will refer to my legal adviser on this. My understanding is that it's not an excessive amount.

9:30 a.m.

Johane Tremblay Director, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

I would tend to agree.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

On the second amendment, it “may” be bilingual, I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that. I mean, if the judge wants to have it bilingual, he will.

As for the third one, on the other processes, I guess the biggest push-back on this one...because you're talking about a significant amount of what appears to be, obviously, just modification to the system, it appears quite fair and reasonable and logical. But I guess the push-back from the provinces would be that this is all in negotiation with the provinces and territories that only have so much capacity, and you can only make so much progress at a time.

Do you think that such a large but justified logical amendment might sort of cause chaos in that type of gradual progression, getting the provinces and territories onside and getting the capacity to do this?

9:30 a.m.

President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law Inc.

Louise Aucoin

I don't think so. It doesn't cost more to hire a bilingual stenographer, or whatever, than a unilingual one, and I think if we want to make sure that these are rights and not privileges, then we have to offer.... I mean, access has to be there, and if the personnel is--

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

But if you're doing bail hearings and all these other processes, it's more than a stenographer.

9:30 a.m.

President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law Inc.

Louise Aucoin

Yes, but I think it's not that onerous. It doesn't mean that everybody has to be bilingual. I mean, if we look at New Brunswick, not everybody in the court system is bilingual. So I don't think that--

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Okay, I'll leave the New Brunswick one to Mr. Ménard. I have one more question, though, if I have time.

Something you didn't bring up but I think you're interested in is the fact that if the accused has the judge or jury who can speak his language, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will. A lot of people say they're bilingual--perhaps they passed the test years ago--but then they go on in the wrong language. Do you have any amendment to propose that would ensure that, as much as possible, the accused gets the language of his right, that even if the person claims to be bilingual, they actually work in the language of the accused?

9:30 a.m.

President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law Inc.

Louise Aucoin

I think that's an excellent point. That's why we suggested the idea that the bilingual capacity should be evaluated at one point, because it's quite a different thing to be bilingual and to function in the other language. I remember being in a French situation and then studying in English, and thinking, “What does that mean?” So I think it's very important that they are functionally bilingual, because it's not that easy.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Do you want to comment on that particular concept?

9:30 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

We haven't made a proposal in this regard, but you know, it's a challenge in every aspect of administration, not simply the administration of justice. I was recently given a report that was done in British Columbia on the challenge of identifying jurors who could hear a trial and suggesting that there be more imaginative ways of developing the potential lists to draw on jurors, to ensure that jurors could in fact hear a fair trial. I think this is a continuing challenge for every aspect of--

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

The point I was making was just a minor change, that if you choose a juror or a judge who claims to be bilingual, it also says that as much as possible they should speak in the language of the accused. Just because they're bilingual...you know, a bilingual judge could have taken French lessons and passed the B level, and then he comes to the trial and he does all his speaking in English.

So the modification I'm suggesting is that as much as possible he uses his bilingual ability to speak in the language of the accused.

9:35 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

Yes. Whether this is something that should be inscribed in the legislation, I'm not sure. I think this may be more of a regulatory or an administrative matter than something that is inscribed in the law, but I leave it to your discretion as legislators.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Thank you.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Art Hanger

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

Mr. Ménard.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Réal Ménard Bloc Hochelaga, QC

I have three questions for Mr. Fraser and two for Ms. Aucoin.

First, congratulations on your appointment. This is the first time you have appeared before this committee since your appointment. I wish you all the best.

Could you remind us of the provisions, particularly for Quebec, dealing with the administration of justice and the right to legal services? What is the situation?

I am very interested in the part of your brief that says that subsection 530(6) could alter the discretion of the judge to order that a trial be held in one language or the other or in both. I would like you to give me more information about that.