Justice Committee on June 21st, 2011

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to ask for clarification with regard to the in camera meeting transcripts. I am here today substituting for Mr. Cotler. If this were an in camera meeting, I should have the ability to look at the transcripts since I was actually the person attending the meeting. So I would suggest expanding that to include not only members of the committee but members of the committee and also the actual members of Parliament who attended the in camera meeting. How would that be?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I think you are a member of the committee because you are substituting. So for that particular committee, my understanding is that you would have access to the transcripts because you were the member at the committee. It would be logical in that sense because obviously you would want to check that.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

And Mr. Cotler would still be able to--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

As a full committee member, he would.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

That's correct.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Certainly our discussion would identify that as our understanding.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

Mr. Comartin.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'd like to point out something for our new members. It's been the position of the NDP that the parliamentary secretary should not be on the steering committee. The idea behind that position--and it's been our position for the better part of 10 years--is that we want, as much as possible, the parliamentary committees to be independent of the government, so we can do our work without direction from cabinet in particular. I don't have a problem with the composition in terms of the five members. But we've always been opposed to that part of it, so that part of it I would want as a separate motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

We will go through these separately anyway.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I just want to identify for Mr. Comartin, if I may.... I understand that this has been the position for some. With respect, sir, I've only been here seven years, but in the five years that I was the PS at transport committee, it was very effective. The steering committee still has the ability to steer, and obviously the committee as a whole has to endorse anything the steering committee decides.

In this particular case, we have more members here, as you can see, so ultimately I think what we're looking for is cooperation among all members, and we're looking to make sure that the flow of communication between the parliamentary secretaries and the ministers and then the ministers to the parliamentary secretaries is clear enough so that we can move forward productively.

In the transport committee we passed 15 bills, 10 of which became law in five years. We were very productive and we worked in a cooperative manner. Quite frankly, it worked much more effectively than the environment committee, which I sat on before and which was not productive, and I think that was a clear indication as to why.

My suggestion, Mr. Comartin--and I know how it has worked in the past--is that it hasn't been effective, to be blunt, because the communication is not there. Those on the steering committees have to go back to the parliamentary secretaries to find out, for instance, about ministers' attendance or where the ministers want us to go. Let's face facts: we are the Conservative members on this committee and we are going to be pushing the agenda forward for the government.

I do not agree with that. My motion stands as it is. Bluntly, I think we will be much more effective. Frankly, we want to be cooperative, and I think this is the way to do it: with good communication.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

In response, structurally the more effective way to do it would be to have the chair act as that conduit to the department and to the minister. That's certainly the way it works in England, and it's much more effective than allowing the direct control by the minister through the form of the parliamentary secretaries. But I know the government's position: it has been that forever and that will be the result. But it's not the right one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

Mr. Hsu, did you have a question?

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I just wanted a clarification. Is there a quorum for the steering committee? Is it five people or three?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I think it identifies as three...I'll have to put on my glasses and do some fast reading. If you look at paragraph 2 under “Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure”, it says that the quorum of the subcommittee shall consist of at least three members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

If you would like, I have no difficulty--

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

The second paragraph?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dave MacKenzie]

I'm sorry. That's not on your sheet--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I apologize for not working off the clerk's sheet, Mr. Hsu. I think that's a very good point, and actually, I would also identify another, if I may. I would also identify that I think it would be appropriate to say that the quorum of the subcommittee shall consist of at least three members, including one member of the opposition.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay. That was my--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I have no difficulty with that. I think that would be reasonable in the circumstances.