Evidence of meeting #60 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cyberbullying.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
The bill went through the Library of Parliament. The Library of Parliament agreed that this was a valid bill.
I have talked to academics. I have talked to a whole lot of people who believe that this is a valid bill, that what it is doing is clarifying what is meant by the word “other”, and that in fact it is making sure that all means of communications today, in the 21st century, are able to be accessed, if necessary, to find out who is using this anonymous means of spreading either false messages or messages of criminal harassment, etc.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Were you aware that there's a definition of “computer system” under section 342.1?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Yes, I was aware. What we found is that it is not equally applied every time, and that it is left to interpretation in many instances.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
We're just clarifying. Again, if it's left to interpretation, the word “clarify” applies. I'm clarifying because we don't want it to be left to anyone else's interpretation anymore. We'll be as clear as it is in the Criminal Code when it mentions the other means of using communiqués.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Brampton West, ON
Do you think the definition of “a computer system” means as follows? It means:
...a device...or a group of interconnected or related devices one...of which
(a) contains computer programs or other data, and
(b) pursuant to computer programs,
(i) performs logic and control, and
(ii) may perform any other function....
You think your definition, which is much more succinct, is better than that Criminal Code definition.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
No. I'm not arguing that Criminal Code definition; I'm saying that in these sections of the Criminal Code, there seems to be ambiguity, and it does not apply. Two of your colleagues talked about the very ambiguity that I'm talking about now. I'm just trying to clarify. It's as simple as that.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace
Thank you, Dr. Fry.
Thank you, Mr. Seeback.
Our next questioner is Mr. Mai from the NDP.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Fry.
I'd like to, if I may, follow up on Mr. Seeback's comments. You've said that you met with different organizations. Have you met with law enforcement officials who say this would be something that would be clarifying in supporting your bill?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Okay.
Can we back up a bit? I understand that cyberbullying has been here for a long time. Can you tell me the story of the bill? You mentioned that it was brought forth before and then there were elections. When did you start pushing that forward?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
It was 2007. What has the government done on that front?
We've heard from the Conservatives that it's a concern for them, but for some reason nothing has come from the government. Can you explain why nothing has been done?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
No, I can't explain that. I think the government would have to explain that.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Why was nothing done by Liberals before that, while the Liberals were in power? We know that cyberbullying has been around for a long time and has been a big issue for a long time.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Well, actually, that's not quite true. The social media did not take off to the extent that it has until about 2009. We had begun to look at it being used in schools as early as....
Brian, when was my bill first brought forward?
4:15 p.m.
A voice
It was 2007.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Yes. We had only just begun to hear about it at that time, and we were seeking to deal with it this way. But before that, there was no rampant Internet. There was no social media to the extent that there is now.
What we have seen is an escalation of the use of social media because of its anonymity, and whether the person intended or didn't intend it, it has resulted in harm. In fact, it has resulted in deaths in some instances. Again, as I've said, we left government in 2006. This was not something that was a major issue for me at the time.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
You've mentioned the case of Amanda Todd. Are there any other cases this bill would clarify and where it would be used? Do you feel it would be something that would actually make sure that we don't have any cyberbullying?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
There are many cases, and I don't have them all in front of me to tell you. I think one of the issues is, for instance, this young woman who is a tennis player and has just quit. She is depressed.
The point is, when you bully someone or you cyberbully them, it carries on no matter where they are, and they cannot escape from it. That is the insidious nature of cyberbullying.
As I said before, you can have people call you names in school. They can take you and lock you in the men's washroom or in the girls' washroom and do whatever they want to you. You can go home and you can have your family and other friends to protect you and you can grow up and you can prove, by being successful like Bill Gates, that it doesn't matter that people called you names when you were in school because, as we see, success is the biggest revenge that anybody who has been bullied can have.
The point is that this is insidious and it never goes away. You cannot escape it; it is everywhere. That is one of the things that, as I said, Rebecca Marino said. There was no way she could escape it, and she gave up her career. She did have a mitigating factor; she was depressed. She was a person who was fighting depression, and this just put the lid on it for her.
I have seen that ordinary bullying, never mind cyberbullying, has caused people who have a tendency to be depressed and who have very low self-esteem to move into suicidal ideation, where it's very difficult to stop them.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Just to understand, was that case not covered or it has not gone through because cyberbullying wasn't defined as per your bill?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
No, she chose not to take this to court. She chose to just quit her tennis career.