National Defence Committee on Nov. 6th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

One thing we do is the estimates and the budget. The committee deals with those in most instances. The committee of the whole, which is happening tomorrow night in the House, is going to replace us in terms of looking at the estimates as a committee. We can look at the estimates and we can move motions to have the line items changed or reduced. So there's a process there whereby we have some oversight.

The budget is prepared by the government and brought forward. Within that will be the budget of the Department of National Defence. That all becomes part of the entire global budget.

As far as the committee is concerned, I agree with Mr. Dosanjh. We can study whatever we want, and right now we're doing Afghanistan. If we prepare a report with recommendations, that goes to the government and they have to respond within a certain period of time. But we're on our own and we can branch off in any direction we want. When it comes to the dollars and the oversight there, though, that's something the committee does have some control over, along with any subject that we want to deal with.

The authority that the committee has—and this is a debate that has gone on forever, and still will go on forever—in terms of what influence we have over the department or the functioning of the military is pretty much up to the government. We can make recommendations, and they need to respond, but how the government proceeds is actually up to the government.

[Thandi Vivian Tobias]

We have two members who want to ask questions, including Mr. Ndlovu.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Go ahead.

[Velaphi Bethuel Ndlovu, M.P., Portfolio Committee on Defence, Parliament of South Africa]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairperson.

I just wanted to ask about your experience with peacekeeping. We are new in the field, and you are very old in the field. What are the nitty-gritties that need to take place? We know that countries have different positions on how they want to do it, but what is the Canadian position on peacekeeping?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Did you catch the question, Laurie?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

My perspective may be a little different from that of others, having been in the military. We don't do very much of what you think of as Canadian peacekeeping any more, because we're not involved in a lot of situations in which there are two sides who want a peacekeeper in the middle. Mostly, we're in places where there are people who want to kill each other, or there are people like some in Afghanistan who want to kill the civilian population, and we're trying to prevent that. I suggest that it would be similar to what's perhaps going on in Sudan, in Darfur. You have innocent people being massacred, and somebody needs to step in and try to stop that.

To be good peacekeepers, in my view—again, I'm probably a little bit biased—you need to have forces that are combat-capable, because it may go from peacekeeping to war fighting within a matter of minutes. That has happened to us in places where we have been peacekeeping, like Bosnia, in the Balkans. We were sent there on a peacekeeping mission, but we wound up in full-blown combat on very short notice.

So in my view, you need to have people and organizations that are fully combat-capable. They can do a less demanding mission, but it's very difficult to send in people with blue berets and no combat capability, and then have them wind up in a situation in which they're getting shot at.

So first and foremost, in my view, you have to have people who are capable of fighting. That may not be their mandate when they go there, but they have to be capable of it, because they may be faced with it very quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We're quickly running out of time, and we have other witnesses here too.

We have a couple of minutes for you to wrap up, and if there's anything that you want more specifically, you can get us a letter or a note—I think you have to some degree already—and we can follow up and maybe get our researchers just to respond in a very precise fashion to the questions you're asking.

[Thandi Vivian Tobias]

Thank you very much, Chairperson.

We welcome the opportunity to be allowed to share in this experience. I hope this interaction won't end at this level. We'll have the opportunity to interact at a particular stage.

Of course, we're here for the whole week. We'll also meet other people from your military headquarters and the military academy, with the ombudsperson, and so on.

I think this is the starting point of a relationship that we'll be taking to certain heights. I'm humbled by the opportunity for us to come here and interact with you.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Very good, and we appreciate you doing that. I know there are parliamentary associations. I'm not sure if there's a Canada–South Africa one or not, but I know from my experience of having been on a couple of those that they're very worthwhile. The creation of that might be something about which you might want to approach our government.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Can I just thank you for building the Nyala, as well? That vehicle has saved a lot of Canadian soldiers' lives in Afghanistan, so thank you for that.

[Thandi Vivian Tobias]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Very good.

We'll take a short pause. We'll suspend, change our witnesses, and thank our guests.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]