National Defence Committee on Feb. 15th, 2007

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

And that's three. Thank you.

Mr. Williston, can you talk a little bit about the role of Public Works regarding industrial regional benefits?

[Terry Williston]

I can't really speak to that. Our colleagues at Industry Canada are the ones who are responsible for determining the requirements for IRBs and then the detailed negotiations with the contractor. They're part of the team we send down to negotiate with contractors, but they are responsible to their own minister for that requirement.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

But would you say that the main role of Public Works is really to do the tendering process, based on the capability requirements?

[Terry Williston]

Correct. We prepare those solicitation documents and put them out to the public. We receive the bids. We oversee the evaluation process and any negotiations that are required. We finally obtain the approvals necessary to award the contract, continue the management activity, oversee the contract while it is under way, and eventually do contract close-out and finalization.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Could you give me an update on where you are with regard to the C-17 and the CC-130J?

[Terry Williston]

With respect to the C-17, it was reported that we signed the contract with Boeing as of February 1. We expect the first delivery of aircraft--as the general indicated, due to the good graces of the U.S. Air Force--sometime in August, with the last delivery sometime in the spring or summer of 2008.

With respect to the CC-130J, the tactical airlift project, we're about to issue the final request for proposal to the single qualified bidder, Lockheed Martin. We'll expect a proposal from them sometime in the late spring, early summer. We anticipate to be in contract in the September-October timeframe. The first delivery is to happen 36 months after contract award.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you.

We now have Mr. Bachand, back to Mr. Hiebert, and then to Mr. Coderre.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have several brief questions that I would like brief answers to. I'd like to understand the role of the minister in these issues.

Would you agree in saying that the Minister of National Defence has a very, very important role in the entire defence equipment procurement process?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

The minister definitely has a role in the defence procurement process.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Fine.

Throughout this process, from determining the requirements to signing the contract, is the Minister of Defence briefed regularly on the progress of procurement taking place?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

It depends on the nature of the program. Some programs the minister has more interest in than others. Some programs he won't get hardly any briefings on at all until the very end; others he will take more regular briefings on.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I imagine that it also depends on the minister's interests. At any point in time the Minister of Defence can say that he wants to know how things are progressing. Is that correct?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

That has been my experience with most ministers, yes.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Given that the minister is responsible politically for defence and given that he is responsible for defending the interests of taxpayers, can he, at any point in time in the process, declare that he does not agree with certain requirements because he feels that that might result in unnecessarily high cost to taxpayers, and that he would like to be presented with something else because he does not agree with what is being put forward? Can the minister do that within the process?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

The minister can be involved in the challenge function. The challenge function simply asks if something makes sense. Certainly, when it comes to the issue of identifying the priority for resources, ministers are very much involved in the priority-setting for how our resources are expended.

Hypothetically, that can occur—and probably has occurred—where we've identified that something was seen to be not affordable, and in terms of the priority setting across the department, that's probably an appropriate role for the minister to play.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Burt, you talked about the refinement process for requirements. Requirements can change along the way. Given what General Lucas just stated, could the minister ask you to proceed in a particular way in that refinement process? Can the minister do that in order to help you?

[Col D. C. Burt]

I'm not going to speak hypothetically on whether he could or not. What I am going to say to you is that in the case of the strategic airlift project, there was no direction received from the government with respect to the requirements themselves. When I finished my refinement process that I spoke about and the SOR was prepared for the Chief of the Air Staff to review, the requirements never changed after that point.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Would you agree with me in saying that the members of the House of Commons are in charge of the public purse?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

I believe that's a function of members of Parliament.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Would you agree that at some point in time the Standing Committee on National Defence be involved in the procurement process?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

You are now moving from the general to the specific.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes.

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

It's probably beyond my peg rate to determine what role Parliament should be playing and where they should be playing that role in this process.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Would you be opposed to a recommendation to increase the Standing Committee on National Defence's involvement in the process?

[LGen J. S. Lucas]

As I said, I really haven't formed an opinion one way or another on that.