Evidence of meeting #9 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was opportunity.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

January 31st, 2008 / 4 p.m.

Conservative

Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It was interesting to listen to Mr. Bachand's comments. Since I am a Conservative MP, I can speak for myself. I would have liked to hear him express his views as a responsible member of the Standing Committee on National Defence. That's more or less what I was expecting him to do.

I have to say, Mr. Chairman, that I am a little surprised to see some of my colleagues take this motion so lightly. There are moments in life when one should rise above partisan considerations. The mission to Afghanistan is one such moment, to my mind. Mr. Bachand, a member of the Quebec nation, needs to be reminded that this is the largest deployment of Quebec troops since World War II. In fact, the vast majority of the military involved in this mission are from Valcartier. From what I have heard, Prime Minister Mackenzie King once took part in a council of war held in this very forum.

One can either support, or oppose, the mission, but at this stage of the game, as members of the Standing Committee on National Defence, this is not the issue that we should be debating. The issue is not necessarily whether or not we agree with the report's findings—and I do think a certain number of findings have the support of some committee members. As parliamentarians, we have the tools with which to do a more in-depth analysis of the situation than what is being done in the House. I am talking here about the work of the parliamentary committee.

Our work is, of course, partisan in nature, but I like to think that we operate in a more constructive climate. Clearly, the stakes are high and we are mindful of what the mission to Afghanistan represents for Canadians. We are also mindful of the decision we need to make as parliamentarians where Afghanistan is concerned. Ultimately, we know that a decision will need to be made on the floor of the House. I think it is entirely relevant for this committee to review the work of the Manley Commission in advance of this vote and of the debate that will take place in the House.

Off the top of my head, I would say to Mr. Bachand that while I am indeed a Conservative MP, I see no reason why we cannot hold parallel special meetings to look into the work of the Manley Commission.

We are as concerned as you are, Mr. Bachand, about the health of our troops, especially since we are talking about Quebeckers from Lévis, Bellechasse and Les Etchemins. We are talking about Quebeckers from the Régiment de la Chaudière and from the 6th Field Regiment, about people with whom I deal either directly, or indirectly, through parents of our military forces members currently deployed to Afghanistan. I am just as interested as , if not more interested than you are, Mr. Bachand, about their condition when their mission ends.

There is one more interesting question that I would have liked to see discussed. I don't know if you've noticed, but mention is often made of the 3D approach, that is development, diplomacy and defence. We need to explore this approach further. We've talked about joint sessions of the national defence and foreign affairs and international development committees. How many times have I heard colleagues say—and rightfully so—that we need to focus on an integrated, synergistic approach. In this particular instance, we would like to do an analysis and to address this motion in an integrated way.

I sincerely invite my colleagues from all parties to carefully consider their position on this motion or on any similar motion that could be tabled. This exercise may prove interesting from time to time. All parties would withdraw their notices since they would be able to put matters into perspective.

There is one final point that I would like to address, Mr. Chairman. I admit that we have had an opportunity to comment on and to analyze the Manley report. However, some issues may not have been addressed in the report. It would be interesting to look at why this is so and to hear people's views on the subject. The only way to do that is to have them appear before the committee. Knowing how MPs like to be prepared, I am confident that some very interesting questions would be put to these individuals.

Summing up, Mr. Chairman, in my opinion it is important that my colleagues weigh the opportunity given to us by the parliamentary secretary, that is the opportunity to look more closely at the Manley report, whether in terms of availability or frequency.

An important principle is involved and I simply wanted to point that out to you, whether or not we are in camera.

Thank you.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Thank you, sir.

We'll go to Mr. Cannis.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

John Cannis Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I just have one quick question, Mr. Chairman.

Not to get into this, but if we might possibly meet with this group in the future, if the clerk could maybe look into this and in advance get us a list of the witnesses this group met with, it would help us as we plan for the future.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

It's all in the report, towards the back of the report. It's all in there. It can be found very quickly.

We have a continuing list here. I'm going to give everybody a fair opportunity, but not an abusive opportunity, to give a point of view here.

We'll have Mr. Lunney, Mr. Hawn, and then Ms. Black.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Well, I'll be brief.

Colleagues, I just want to say that I'm surprised. I've been a member of the House for many years. Although I'm new on this committee, I've served on other committees. I served a long time on the health committee. Whenever something came up on the health file that was germane to our area, we considered ourselves to be the best informed members in the House on a health matter. When it was the Romanow report, we wanted to hear from Commissioner Romanow; we had extensive hearings with the commissioner. When the Kirby report came in, we wanted to hear from Senator Kirby and from officials who sat with him and prepared that report. When we were talking about the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, and the chair was appointed, Dr. Alan Bernstein, we wanted to hear from the chair, because we were considered, and considered ourselves to be, more or less, the authoritative members when health issues came before the House. Whether it was the Quarantine Act or something else, we wanted to debate those issues.

Frankly, I think it is the responsibility of the committee to examine work in the area of expertise the committee is supposed to be holding the government to account on. I am quite frankly astounded that members on the opposite side would not want to avail themselves of this opportunity. It is the fundamental role of members to inform themselves about these issues and to challenge issues you don't agree with.

If members turn down what I see as a fundamental responsibility of committee members, I think it's going to reflect very poorly not only on the committee but certainly on the members who make such a decision.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

We'll have Mr. Hawn and then Ms. Black.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Chair, I'll just wrap it up from our side. We've listened to a lot of talk, mainly from the Bloc and the NDP and us. I think members of the Liberal Party came with their minds pretty well made up and fairly closed, and that's their prerogative.

This is not to stall or slow down anything. It's similar to what Mr. Lunney said. It's an opportunity, which I think we have a responsibility to take, to talk to the people who have done a very extensive in-depth report that's going to affect Canada significantly. It's going to affect us internationally. It's going to affect our allies. It's going to affect fundamentally the people we're trying to help in Afghanistan.

Frankly, I think it's irresponsible for this committee not to take the opportunity to do that. It's for the benefit of the Canadian public and Parliament that we do that. I'm not angry at Mr. Bachand--I could never get angry at Mr. Bachand. But I have to say that I'm incredibly disappointed, if the vote goes the way it will apparently go, that the opposition members of this committee will deprive Canadians and deprive Parliament of the opportunity to hear some people that we should, frankly, hear.

We have compromised on this side to make it work, suggesting that we could meet even singly as a committee. We've compromised on the questioning to give the NDP twice as many questions as they would normally get and to give the Bloc 50% more questions than they would normally get. We've compromised on the original suggestion to make the whole process shorter. We've compromised to say, fine, let's not hear from additional witnesses; let's limit it to the Manley panel itself and the ministers involved.

We've compromised all along the way to try to make this work for the benefit of Canadians and for the benefit of Parliament. I just want to express my deep, deep disappointment, if that's the way this goes, that this committee has chosen to deny Canadians that opportunity. And I'll just leave it at that.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Thank you.

Ms. Black, yours is the last name on the list. Then we'll move on.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Okay. Thanks very much.

I want you to know that I have considered it very carefully and have given it a great deal of thought. Mr. Hawn spoke to me about it earlier today or last night—the time rather blurs.

I believe the panel in fact hasn't approached the committee to speak. It's coming from the government side; I suppose it's the PMO that wants this. I see no indication that the panel is looking for this opportunity. They have been on virtually every media outlet across the country for the last week or so.

On the other issue, I must agree with my colleague from the Bloc. From the beginning this panel, I believe, was set up in many ways to contract out the work of parliamentarians. We had a lengthy study on the war of Afghanistan, we all wrote reports on it--and I have read the Manley report. What appears to me is that many of the conclusions or the recommendations in the report don't follow from the body of the report; they don't really make a great deal of sense.

If we really want the public to be well informed about the role of the Canadian mission and the NATO mission in Afghanistan, I think we would have more forthright answers in the House of Commons to questions we've all asked around the detainee issue, I think we would have more forthright conversations and debates on the issues when we raise them in the House, and I really believe—and I mean this sincerely—that if the government wants to have a full debate on the recommendations of the Manley report, then they would bring a motion to the House and allow it to come through under government orders, so that there would be an opportunity for all members of Parliament to raise the issues they see flowing not only out of the Manley report but also around the whole mission in Afghanistan and the need we have articulated for a change in direction.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Let us have a recorded vote.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Okay. I'm ready to call the question. Is everybody ready for the question?

There's been a request that it be recorded.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

We'll suspend for thirty seconds while we move in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]