National Defence Committee on April 1st, 2009

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

The Russians are the only ones to have engaged in this type of activity.

I suppose that NORAD is not only on the lookout for aircraft. Are you able to state whether other actions were carried out by the Russian army?

[MGen M. Duval]

I cannot really talk about things outside the purview of NORAD. In the case at hand, there is nothing else of note.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Would you have anything to say about submarine activity?

[MGen M. Duval]

I must admit that is outside of my mandate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Coderre.

I now give the floor to Mr. Bachand. You have seven minutes.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Major-General Duval.

[MGen M. Duval]

Thank you.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You have just confirmed a number of things.

I have questions concerning the distant early warning line. To your knowledge, did the distant early warning line or North Warning System detect these aircraft on February 18? Were you on duty in Winnipeg that day?

[MGen M. Duval]

Sir, I travel so often that I would have to check my day planner to see if I was there that day. I was aware of the situation and kept up-to-date. It is not uncommon for me to be away when such things occur; I travel a great deal. I can simply say that NORAD's aircraft detection systems functioned properly that day.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

They detected the approaching aircraft. Now, I understand the difference between the CADIZ and the ADIZ. In your presentation, you indicated that the event occurred around 5:22 p.m. in the CADIZ. You then said that a call was made warning "CLOSE TO TERRITORY" at 5:33 p.m.

Am I to understand that the CF-18s took off at the time of detection, i.e., at 5:22 p.m.? From where did they take off?

[MGen M. Duval]

They took off from one of our forward-operating bases in the Arctic. There are four such bases: Inuvik, Rankin Inlet, Yellowknife and Iqaluit, from west to east. In this case, the aircraft took off from the Inuvik base.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

That makes sense. If they received the order to take off at 5:22 p.m., they could already be in intercept mode 11 minutes later.

[MGen M. Duval]

No, let me clarify that. I can understand there being some confusion. Detection was done before the aircraft arrived in the identification zone. During the time it took the F-18s to fly to... The aircraft entered the CADIZ, but they had already been detected, and the F-18s had already taken off. The intercept occurred a little while later. The aircraft were identified, and the call was made 11 minutes later. The identification process takes a few minutes, we have to come into position and identify the aircraft. The call was placed 11 minutes later.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Being an aviator yourself, you must have some knowledge of Russian equipment. The Tupolev Tu-95 aircraft must be equipped to pinpoint its location in the airspace.

[MGen M. Duval]

I can only hypothesize because I have never had the opportunity to board a Bear aircraft. Based on the international standards maintained by leading-armed forces, of which I consider the Russian air force to be a member, I would not be surprised that they have all the modern navigational systems, including GPS. In answer to your question, they should be able to keep to a very accurate flight plan.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You said that the F-18s took off from Inuvik. How many aircraft are assigned to the various bases? How many aircraft are there in Inuvik, in Iqaluit? Is that secret information?

[MGen M. Duval]

I will not disclose those details, because they are of a tactical nature.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Is that classified information?

[MGen M. Duval]

That is classified information.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

When all is said, we can only conclude that nothing special occurred. Canadian airspace was not breached on February 18.

[MGen M. Duval]

No. The Russian bombers entered the identification zone. That is not a binding mandate. However, we would appreciate receiving their flight plans, something they have not chosen to disclose to us up until now. They simply entered the identification zone, the CADIZ. They did not enter into our airspace.

As I have already indicated, at the speed they were flying, it was only a matter of minutes before they reached our airspace.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Who orders the F-18s to take off? Is it someone at NORAD or in Winnipeg?

[MGen M. Duval]

Everything originates from NORAD and goes through Winnipeg. Under the region's command, you have the tactical control centre, the Canadian Air Defence Sector, which is located in North Bay, Ontario. The tactical intercept managers are in direct communication with the fighters and deal with in-flight fuel needs, if need be, depending on the duration of a mission. Consequently, things start out at NORAD and are relayed to the region and then to the sector.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

With regard to command and control, who is responsible for the F-18s? Is it NORAD, Winnipeg or the tactical group?

[MGen M. Duval]

It's the entire organization. Ultimately, General Renuart is the supreme commander of the command.