National Defence Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Paul Kaludjak]

Thank you, sir, and thank you, Mr. Chairman.

That is a good question.

I was going to say earlier about the language that I don't have the luxury of interpretation when I talk in my own language, unfortunately, but you all do.

In terms of the naming, I don't know if you are aware now that Mr. Kramp did submit motion 387 to add a name to the Northwest Passage. That tells us that the system was not aware of the protocol whereby the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement Act takes part in that process. If there are to be name changes within our own backyard, the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement Act must be party to that so that we direct the MP to work with us, as of yesterday, and direct the work to the Inuit Heritage Trust, which is responsible for renaming and naming traditional names on our behalf.

We were telling you--our group and people who had interest in this file--that when you're renaming locations in the English language, they already have names in Inuktitut. They existed when people hunted in that area. There were already names, names that people disregarded. They drew maps and put their own names on them. The Inuit already had names for those places, and the explorers put their own names on them in disregard to them.

Larry Bagnell came over yesterday to our office to talk to us about this issue, and we advised him that Tallurutik would be that name of that area. Tallurutik means the chin of a person. Talluq means a chin, and Tallurutik means a woman's chin with a tattoo. When you go up the Northwest Passage, the land looks like a big chin as you go along the passage, and it looks as though there are tattoos on some of the islands and mainland areas. That's what it's named after.

I hope your interpretation will pick it up and I hope you will learn to say it along the way.

Thank you very much.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Do I still have some time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have 15 seconds.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Paillé.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Perhaps I can continue Mr. Payne's line of questioning.

In your opinion, through its actions, or interference, is the government failing to respect your people's customs?

[Paul Kaludjak]

Am I allowed to say yes to that?

Yes and no. We said when we signed the land claims agreement in 1993 that this showed respect to the Inuit people and along the way at times it was lost. That's why we had a hard time trying to re-entertain the need for the language to be retrieved on many occasions. Because the change of the language was so advanced in English, many of the communities were way behind in trying to get their language back on the front burner. The farther west you go, the more the language is not there, and there's been a lot of interference. But today we are trying to retrieve that on many occasions where the language has to come back to the community and to make sure we fully entertain that aspect of Nunavut where the working language is Inuktitut.

My example to you could be--I don't know where you're from--it would be like me trying to change Ottawa to a new name. If I tried that, everybody would go crazy, and it's the same thing no matter where you live. I will not change the backyard. I will not put a new name to it without your permission, and it's the same thing in this case. We ask that this motion be referred and more work be done before it happens. That's what we're asking for today, as we speak.

Also when we, the younger generation, want to find out about our traditions, the most appropriate way is we use what we call IQ, which is Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, which means Inuit knowledge. We speak to the elders about the land formations and the customs they have so we can keep that before us and keep it within us and help educate people with it.

Thank you.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Kaludjak, as a sovereigntist member of the Bloc Québécois, I understand your position very well. I think our party has some things in common with you. However, you can understand that this may not be the forum in which to pursue that discussion.

I have one last question for you. Do you see any change in the government's behaviour or actions? You mentioned in your submission that certain changes have taken place since 1993. Has the government's attitude changed at all since it has started to show more interest in the Northwest Passage or in Arctic sovereignty?

[Paul Kaludjak]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, sir.

I believe so. We've worked with different governments over the years, in my tenure anyway. I've been working at this level for five years now, and we at Nunavut Tunngavik made history because we met with the Prime Minister last August in Iqaluit when he visited the Arctic. That was the first time, for me anyway, to be able to sit down with the Prime Minister of the country to talk to him directly in a small room with a small group of people. For me that was one of the most historic events this organization has ever encountered.

I can agree that this government is taking steps to acknowledge the Inuit better today and trying to understand our cause. The land claims agreement in Nunavut must get attention, and he understood at that time that the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement must also be implemented. Because time and time again we educate bureaucrats, politicians like yourselves, that there's a Nunavut Land Claims Agreement and things have to happen, things can't be idle. Because they were idle, we have a challenge before us, and that's how serious the situation is right now.

But to answer you, the efforts being made by the current government have been very good for us in Nunavut in terms of Nunavut Tunngavik. We want to make more of those good things and take those new steps, and I hope we get closer to this government to make sure they work with us to implement the claim the best way possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I will give the floor to Mr. Boughen now.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Let me add my voice of welcome to you folks. I'm glad you're able to share part of your morning with us.

I heard in your presentation lots of discussion about places, land, and those kinds of things. I guess my question to you, sir, has to do with human resources, because I heard Ms. Pelly saying there were millions of dollars lost in program dollars spent on others coming into Nunavut to supply services. In other words, I'm guessing they were tradesmen, carpenters, drywallers, bricklayers. What is in place in your part of the world now to address these training needs and educational needs? Because they are in large part going to happen in the whole Northwest Territories.

[Paul Kaludjak]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, sir.

Yes, we did mention the lack of a proper education system in Nunavut over the years. Some of you stated you had read the Berger report. We did work among ourselves a few years ago to find out what was wrong with the system. We looked at the education system overall, and when we reviewed it and the consultants came back, we learned that Nunavut was experiencing a 75% dropout rate. That was seven or eight years ago, but it's improved now.

We looked at that and asked, is that number accurate? Yes, it was. We were experiencing a 75% dropout rate. So out of every 100 students, 75 of them were dropping out, and that was not proper. It was unfair. We were being unfair, and it was not fair to the students who were in that educational cycle. So that told us as parents and teachers that we needed to help and that the government system needed to improve aspects of that. As I said before, there needs to be an overhaul of the educational system in Nunavut. I think that's pretty much being undertaken right now, and we want to make sure that bilingual education is at the forefront of everything the educational system does provide in Nunavut. That's being undertaken right now.

We've been blamed many times for not having capacity in Nunavut. As a result, we have to revamp things, because it's reflective of the education system not being proper. We wanted to come back and say that we were trying to fix our own mechanics, I suppose, to make sure we were offering the best education possible in Nunavut.

I know today it's still not the best, because we continue to have to re-educate the students who need to go to higher education, to university and colleges. When they arrive from Nunavut to get a better education in the south, they're required to upgrade their standards, because there's something not quite right. Every one of those students has to go through an upgrade program, meaning they need to upgrade their grades. Again, that tells you there is something wrong with the system.

We continue to do the best we can to resolve that. We try to deal with the capacity issue the best way we can and try to make sure the education component is the best possible, so we can fill those loopholes. That's why you see the $137 million a year that we fail to get because of lack of capacity, because of of our lack of hiring, because the government we work with imports a lot of workers in place of locals who could be working.

Those are the kinds of issues before us that we're working on. Unfortunately, sometimes we cannot avoid those things. On our side, we're trying to help resolve those situations.

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, Udloriak wants to add something.

[Udloriak Hanson, Senior Policy Liaison, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.]

Thank you.

I'd like to add to what Mr. Kaludjak has said, that if you ask what we have in place, there are a couple of highlights worth mentioning. One is that the Government of Nunavut is opening a trade school soon—I think it's next year, not this year. It's being built right now. So that's exciting. We have a cultural school that's opening as well.

One of the other things I'd like to touch on is what Mr. Kaludjak just mentioned in terms of upgrading. We have the Nunavut Sivuniksavut training program here in Ottawa, which is open for beneficiaries. There are usually about 22 students who come down from Nunavut. It's kind of equivalent to CEGEP in Quebec, where it's the stepping stone to a higher education. The rate of employment after going through the NS program is quite high, something like 97%. A lot of them actually end up going back to school.

Judge Berger had mentioned NS as an important component in training, educating, and preparing our youth for jobs in Nunavut as well. That $20 million that was mentioned includes funding and upgrading for the NS program.

There are two other things I'd like to touch on. One is the idea of the Arctic university. I'm sure you heard about it from the Governor General not too long ago. We're looking at initiatives like that in ensuring that education, even after grade 12, can remain in the territory. Right now, as you know, they have to leave for post-secondary education, other than Arctic College.

There is one thing that needs to be mentioned. It's that capacity-building needs to happen in Ottawa as well. There's a lot that isn't known about Nunavut; there's a lot that isn't known about Inuit and the land claims agreement. So as much as we would like to highlight the fact that training capacity needs to happen in Nunavut for our own Inuit, it also needs to happen where the decisions are being made and policies are being created, a lot of times without consultation or proper consultation with Inuit.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank our witnesses for being with us this morning. It was very interesting for all members. As noted, if you can provide us with some details in writing, as Mr. Wilfert asked at the beginning of the meeting, it would be useful for the members.

I will suspend our work for five minutes, after which we'll come back in camera.

Thank you very much.

Do you want to add something?

[Paul Kaludjak]

Yes.

On behalf of my delegates, I want to at least thank the group for taking the time to listen. I know you are busy people. There has been a lot of discussion, and I hope that the recording was done appropriately so that you can have it for your information.

On behalf of my delegates here, we thank you for your time. We are thankful that we can work together and hopefully improve the lives of Inuit of Nunavut the way we should. Thank you for your support.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

We continue with the 34th meeting.

I just want to inform the members that we are in public right now.

I think, Ms. Gallant, that you have a point of order.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes. I just wondered whether or not the following discussion is going to be in camera or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

So we have a question of privilege that we want to discuss together. The question is, do we want to discuss that in camera or in public?

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chairman, as I mentioned earlier, I'd formally move a motion to have the proceedings in camera.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

In any event, Mr. Chair, we agreed to hear from the witnesses first and then to discuss this matter at 10:30 a.m. We agreed to defer our in camera discussion of this matter until 10:30 a.m.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Since the consensus appears to be that we should continue in camera, the public meeting is suspended.

The meeting continued in camera.