National Defence Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Good morning, everyone.

We are going to begin the 36th sitting of the Standing Committee on National Defence. In accordance with Standing Order and the motion adopted on Monday, February 23, 2009, we are going to have a briefing today on the subject of the security preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games.

We have with us witnesses from the Privy Council Office, Ward Elcock, Coordinator for the 2010 Olympics and G-8 security. We have also from the Department of National Defence Vice-Admiral Bruce Donaldson, Commander, Canada Command, and we have also from the RCMP Pat McDonell, Assistant Commissioner, Protective Policing.

Welcome, and thank you for being with us. You'll have between five and nine minutes to do a presentation and after that the members will be able to ask you questions.

Mr. Elcock, you have the floor.

[Ward Elcock, Coordinator for 2010 Olympics and G-8 Security, Privy Council Office]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

It's a pleasure to be here with you today to discuss the security preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Today with me are Assistant Commissioner Pat McDonell of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Vice-Admiral Bruce Donaldson of Canada Command, representing the core security partners in planning for the 2010 Winter Games.

We in fact represent only a fraction of the thousands of people involved in ensuring a safe and secure games. I hesitate to attempt to name all of the departments and agencies providing games security, but it's no exaggeration to say that we could have lined up dozens of representatives from the federal, provincial, municipal, and private sector fields for you today. However, you have the three of us. Our intent is to provide you with an overview of the games security architecture and how each of our organizations and some of the others fit into that structure.

To begin with the games themselves, tomorrow marks the beginning of the longest domestic torch relay in Olympic history, with over 45,000 kilometres to be covered from beginning to end. The Olympics themselves take place from February 12 to 28, 2010, and the Paralympics take place from March 12 to 21, 2010, though the security effort in fact covers a longer period, starting in January.

The RCMP, as I think you all know, is the overall lead for security. However, early on in the planning for the games it was recognized that horizontal issues need to be identified and addressed. My position, in an office with a small number of staff, was established in October 2007 with the mandate of overseeing a whole-of-government approach to security preparations for the games. The reality is that means it's been our task to coordinate, enable, and in some cases test the assumptions underlying the security preparations for the games. Our goal is to ensure funding, planning, and operational measures are both linked and risk-based.

Additionally, my office has put in place an exercise program to confirm the readiness of the security partners in advance of the games. The security coordination covers key federal departments and agencies, other levels of government, and international partners.

At the federal level I chair a group of deputy ministers whose departments have security related mandates. This body's goal is to provide the federal Government with integrated advice on Games security. This ability for senior level interdepartmental exchange of information and strategic assessment will allow timely and appropriate responses to significant events that may occur.

We will not be operating in a vacuum—there will be support from departments and agencies operating within their established mandates, as well as an inter-departmental committee at the assistant deputy minister level. Ali told, we will be prepared to provide ministers or individual departments with the advice or information they require to address critical situations. And of course we have our established links with the province of British Columbia that will be used during any emergency.

The world will be looking to Canada to host a safe and secure event for athletes, spectators, and international visitors during the upcoming winter games. While no one wants to contemplate some of the threats one can imagine to the games, any failure on our part in anticipating, preventing, and mitigating those threats and their consequences would have severe repercussions for the people in Vancouver and Whistler, or potentially elsewhere in Canada.

Next week, in Exercise Gold, we will be confirming our readiness to respond to various situations that may arise during the games. While it is impossible to predict every scenario that may challenge us in the future, we can develop habits of mind and strengthen our processes and relationships to the point that we can immediately move to resolve potential crises.

As to where we are, implementation of the security plans for the games is on track to give us the elements needed for effective game security. Without question, an added benefit of game security preparations is the creation of lasting connections, at all levels, among those involved. In fact it is those plans and valued partnerships between organizations that I believe will form a lasting security legacy from these games.

The security partners are focused on their responsibilities and we have comprehensive security plans for the 2010 Winter Games. At the same time our plans take into consideration the fact that the Games are sporting events and not security events.

No one wants anyone to come away from the Games with memories of the security that surrounds them—instead those memories should be of coming together to celebrate athletic competition in a safe and secure environment—that will be the measure of our success.

With that, I will now turn to Assistant Commissioner McDonell who will speak to the RCMP's role in Games security, to be followed by Vice-Admiral Donaldson who will address the role of the Canadian Forces

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have the floor, Mr. McDonell.

[Assistant Commissioner Pat McDonell, Assistant Commissioner, Protective Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, before offering my comments on RCMP Olympic security preparations, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the exceptional support and valued strategic guidance we have received from the office of the coordinator. Deputy Minister Elcock and his staff have been instrumental in navigating some complex matters through the various processes, both at the federal and provincial levels. Mr. Elcock's leadership and experience have contributed to many of our successes to date, and his effort on our behalf is greatly appreciated.

Mr. Chair, as you know, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has been given the responsibility of being the lead agency responsible for the delivery of a safe and secure Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. From the onset it has been our intention to provide a modern sophisticated security package.

Since the tragic events at the Munich Games in 1972 security for the Olympic villages and competition sites has drawn increasing levels of media attention, and this has to a significant extent overshadowed the primary goal of the games, as an expressing of sportsmanship and friendship, and a cultural celebration.

Our overall strategy for the 2010 games is to keep the focus of public attention on the athletes and games, not security, while ensuring that in the background appropriate and effective security is in place. This is a commitment that has been endorsed by the International Olympic Committee and VANOC. Our underlying security philosophy is that the games are an athletic event with security, not a security event with athletes.

In order to deliver on our mandate, the RCMP is taking an intelligence-led planning approach, utilizing sound risk management principles and an integrated security model. In that regard, we have formed the Vancouver 2010 Integrated Security Unit, commonly known as the V2010 ISU. The ISU has grown to include representation from many agencies at all three levels of government. Planners from CSIS, CBSA, Transport Canada, the British Columbia Conservation Officer Service, the Vancouver, West Vancouver, Calgary, and Winnipeg police services, and the greater Vancouver transit authority police are examples of a few of the many contributing agencies that make up the ISU. However, since its inception our most prominent partner has been the Canadian Forces.

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to be here today with Vice-Admiral Donaldson and our colleagues from Canada Command, who have provided exceptional support and assistance in the planning of our efforts to achieve the peak of operational preparation. I will to address a few aspects of our collaboration later in my presentation.

There is nothing unusual about police work during the 2010 Winter Games. The role of the police when unlawful acts occur is to optimize public safety, preserve the peace, and enforce the law while upholding the fundamental freedom of peaceful protest and balancing it with the rights of Canadians to enjoy public events in a safe environment. Activities that involve violations of Canadian law may be the subject of police investigations and criminal prosecutions, regardless of where they occur or who is involved.

The RCMP takes a measured approach to policing major events and is committed to the protection of participants, observers, government and law enforcement officials, the general public, and private and public property. We must prepare for numerous eventualities during such events. To do this, we review our programs and past practices as well as current threat and risk assessments to enhance our response to public safety and security during major international events. We work in close partnership with the local police service of jurisdiction and other law enforcement partners to develop appropriate security measures.

Shortly after the city of Vancouver and the resort municipality of Whistler were awarded the 2010 games, the RCMP began planning for the event. Our first planning initiative was to develop a comprehensive concept of operations. To help with this task, we sought the assistance of the Canadian Forces. A CF subject-matter expert was seconded to the RCMP and the relationship has flourished within the ISU ever since. In fact, Lieutenant Colonel Pat Koch continues to serve in the ISU after returning from duty in Afghanistan. Lieutenant Colonel Koch has been joined by many of his military colleagues, both in the ISU and at Joint Task Force Games.

The work of the joint RCMP-CF Olympic planning team has also intensified, in terms of both strategic direction and regional tactics. The members of the senior management team in Major Events and Protective Services meet periodically with members of operations and planning at Canada Command here in Ottawa, while the members of Assistant Commissioner Bud Mercer's Integrated Security Unit do planning jointly with members of the Canadian Forces in the ISU and the Joint Task Force Games.

The RCMP and Canadian Forces relationship has proven invaluable in preparing for the Vancouver 2010 games. The fully integrated planning structure brought the different perspectives together so that the strengths of each approach were combined to form a very effective planning unit. The fully integrated model that has been adopted will be the model going forward on how security operations for major events will be mounted in the future.

One very obvious area where the skills and expertise of the CF has been invaluable to the RCMP is their capability in exercising. There can be no argument in saying that the CF are truly the Canadian experts in planning and carrying out effective exercises with a view to ensuring operational readiness. In regard to planning for the games, from the early involvement of the Canadian Forces experimental centre in designing a command post experiment, to the continued support of Defence Research and Development Canada, the CF has made significant contributions to Olympic security preparations. These include their efforts supporting enhanced inter-agency coordination within the ISU by developing, modelling, and experimenting with a number of command and control and information and intelligence processes, as well as their involvement with the PCO-led bronze, silver, and gold exercises.

Another example would be the planning process itself. The RCMP has incorporated many aspects of the CF's planning model into our own major event management template.

For the first time, the operational plans for specific pieces like the marine security ops plan and the aviation security ops plan are completely integrated; the CF does not have its own operations plan, nor does the RCMP. The plan incorporates both organizations into one comprehensive operations strategy.

Going forward, it is difficult to imagine a major domestic operation in Canada that will not be managed using this fully integrated model, with the RCMP as the lead agency and the CF in support. Indeed, it is once again proving effective in the work being done in preparation for the G-8 summit being held in Huntsville next year. When looking at international operations such as Afghanistan, a similar model is also proving effective with the RCMP in theatre supporting the CF security operation in terms of civilian policing establishment and training.

These Olympic and non-Olympic activities are clearly living examples of the lasting connections and lasting games security legacies that Deputy Minister Elcock made reference to in his introductory comments. I am confident that the integrated planning model and the strong partnerships forged as a result will ensure that we realize our goal of delivering a safe and secure games.

At this time I will ask Vice-Admiral Donaldson to provide you with his opening remarks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

You have the floor, Vice-Admiral.

[Vice-Admiral Bruce Donaldson, Commander, Canada Command, Department of National Defence]

Good morning, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to be able to appear before you alongside my distinguished colleagues to provide you with an update on Canadian Forces activities in support of the security preparations for next year's Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in Vancouver and Whistler.

And it is appropriate that my remarks to you today follow those of Mr. Elcock and Assistant Commissioner McDonell, for the role of my organization in providing security for the Winter Games is very much supportive. While the Canadian Forces are ready to play our part in ensuring a safe and secure Games, as you've already heard, primary responsibility for the security of the Games lies with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Public Safety Canada. The Canadian Forces are providing a number of unique capabilities in support of the RCMP, including air, land, and maritime surveillance of Canada's west coast, operational and exercise planning assistance, and use of Canadian Forces infrastructure and logistics support.

As the Commander of Canada Command, I am responsible for all Canadian Forces domestic operations in North America, except for aerospace warning and control. A critical part of my job is to ensure that when we are asked, the Canadian Forces are able to support a whole-of-government effort to achieve desired effects to ensure the safety and security of Canadians.

In planning for the winter games over the last few years we have solidified and deepened our relationships with our key partners, and this will not only stand us in good stead for delivering a safe and secure event, but as my colleagues have said, it will enhance our ability to support future security events as well. A part of this legacy will be our ability to plan and practise major national special events in a more comprehensive manner than has been the case in the past. It is no exaggeration to say that the progress we've achieved in the governance structure, planning among other government departments and with our U.S. partners, has been moving us all to a more considered and deliberate method of preparing for special security events of all types.

Now, with only about 100 days to go before the Opening ceremonies, the Canadian Forces—along with our key mission partners—have been participating in the final exercises leading up to the Games. Last week saw the successful conclusion of Exercise Pegasus Guardian 3, the confirmatory exercise for the RCMP-led Integrated Security Unit, and Spartan Rings, the Joint Task Force Games exercise lead by Canada Command.

Last week I travelled to Vancouver to observe Spartan Rings and to see firsthand how some of the exercise scenarios unfolded. I also had a close look at how the Joint Task Force Games command structure and headquarters functioned in this simulated environment. I was extremely pleased and have every confidence that the Canadian Forces and Joint Task Force Games are well prepared and positioned for success.

These exercises were functional, full-scale events designed to challenge the ability of security forces to successfully overcome a spectrum of potential threats to the Games. There were a few key areas being validated, including command and control, communications, and tactical procedures. Specific exercise scenarios included marine and air events, criminal protests, and a hostage taking.

Next week we will become fully engaged in Exercise Gold, the final whole-of-government exercise before the games, being held from November 2 to November 6. Exercise Gold, as you know, is to confirm that the whole-of-government security architecture put in place for the games is appropriately prepared. While this is going on, Canada Command will hold Exercise Determined Dragon, which will confirm the readiness of the Canadian Forces at the national level in the provision of support to the security operations for the winter games.

A successful Winter Olympics is all about sport. All the preparations, planning, and exercising in the security domain will result in background conditions within which sport can take centre stage, and Canada can be a proud host to the world.

I will conclude my remarks to you here and I thank you for your attention.

Of course, I am more than happy to answer any questions that you may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you for your presentation.

I am now going to allow the members of the committee to speak with you.

Mr. Dosanjh, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you very much.

First of all let me thank you for being here and for all the good work you do on our behalf, in terms of the RCMP and the Canadian Forces.

I have two questions. One is the budget question. The budget started out from about $175 million when I was in cabinet in those days when it was approved, and now it's about $1 billion, give or take $100 million. I would like to know what your guesstimate is as to where it might end up. Would it stay there or might it increase?

Let me ask you the second question so you can answer both. If there's time left over, my colleague Mr. Wilfert might have a question.

The other question is about the RCMP dealing with some activists in a way that I would say is somewhat un-Canadian and disturbing. I'm going to read you a portion of the editorial from Kevin Brooker of the Calgary Herald from this month, I think October 26. It tells of 24-year-old student Danika Surm, who was approached outside of her classroom by two plainclothes constables.

Their curious mission went roughly like this: We understand you're friends with Chris Shaw. What do you know about the man, his activities and his associations? Surm, feeling very uncomfortable about all of this, said little, largely because she has little to tell. She is but a casual friend of Shaw, who happens to be known as Vancouver's most conspicuous opponent of the Games. For the record, though, it should be noted that Shaw is hardly some face-masked firebrand. He is a respected professor of neuroscience at UBC whose website, 2010watch.com, publishes reasonable, well-buttressed critiques of all manner of political chicanery and unsustainable practices connected with the Games. Shaw, of course, has been ambushed by investigators in the same manner as Surm. So have many others who have been identified as Olympic naysayers. They're calling it a witch hunt, and some are even threatening to sue the ISU. It's not difficult to see that this is harassment, pure and simple. Take Surm's harrowing experience. When she refused to give police her cell number, they nevertheless called her on that phone the next day. And when Shaw travelled to London recently to give a talk, he was taken aside at Heathrow and grilled extensively on what he intended to say.

I'm just reading you part of it; all of it is available on the net.

I would like you to respond to that and tell me how that fits into what you say. You say this is not a security event with athletes but a sporting event with security.

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, on the first issue, the budget question, I think there's no question that the original $175 million was a vast underestimate of what would be required to put on an Olympic games. Even though it's the winter games, which is smaller than the summer games, it's one of the biggest athletic events in the world, only after the summer games and the world cup of soccer. So it is by definition a major event. Also, the number of people involved and the size is enormous. In Vancouver it is even bigger, given that we have in fact two sites.

So it is perhaps not strange.... Because they didn't at that point have a security plan, and they had no concept of operations--all those came later--it's perhaps not surprising that the number was smaller than would in fact be required. At this juncture I don't have any expectation that the number would rise beyond the budget number that is currently out there, the $900 million that includes $137 million for contingencies. I don't have an expectation it would go beyond that. I hope there would be no major events that would cause it to do so. So my view would be that is likely to be the final budget, give or take a very small amount one way or the other, and it may in fact come in under that budget.

In the context of your question about the RCMP, Assistant Commissioner McDonell may want to comment as well. I'm not aware of anything or any investigations carried out by the RCMP that I would regard as unusual or improper. Frankly, the idea of the police seeking to talk to somebody and asking questions of somebody is entirely voluntary as to whether people comply, or want to talk, or have a discussion. I don't regard that as harassment, and I would be surprised if others do.

Assistant Commissioner McDonell may want to comment as well.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

Thank you.

I agree with the comments of Mr. Elcock that we're not harassing people. We're just trying to find out as much information as possible and create a dialogue with demonstrators and protestors, and move forward to ensure the safety and security of the games. I don't believe in this particular case that the members intended to be perceived as harassing an individual.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Is there any way you can shed any light on why someone like Chris Shaw would be stopped at Heathrow and grilled? Did you pass any information on to the British security establishment?

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

Not that I'm aware of. I'm not aware that we passed information to the metropolitan or the United Kingdom services. I'm not aware of that.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you.

Is there any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

No, 15 seconds.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Can I ask something and maybe we can get it back in writing?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Yes.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I understand that there are 5,000 private security screeners being hired for the Olympic Games for general security. Who is being trained and how are they being trained, and to whom are they reporting? And what kind of arrangement is there in terms of the response and the level of security between the RCMP officers and the Canadian Forces? If I could ask that the committee receive that back in writing, it would be appreciated.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I will give the floor now to Monsieur Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome our friends, particularly Mr. Elcock, who is a former Deputy Minister of Defence. He held that position for several years. Mr. Donaldson, I also attended your change of command ceremony. I want to wish you good luck. Thank you also for being here, Mr. McDonell.

Mr. Donaldson, your predecessor, Mr. McFadden, appeared before us in March 2009. I have to come back to what we discussed then and ask you three questions about National Defence. It is important that we get as much detail as possible about national defence issues, even if we agree that the RCMP is in charge of security.

I had asked him a question about protection of air space, the issue that concerns me most. You are talking about air surveillance, but you are not talking about protecting air space. I had talked to Mr. McFadden about the possibility of using a ground-based air defence system, ADATS, that was installed at Kananaskis for the G8 a few years ago. That system would protect against low-altitude attacks by any Cessna, for example, that might be loaded with explosives. His answer was not very clear. He talked about NORAD and all that.

NORAD is in fact in Colorado Springs, and I can't see how a Cessna attack could be prevented from Colorado Springs, even if the F-18s are here. I understand that the F-18s will perhaps be patrolling the air space, but it seems to me that this would not cost a lot. The Canadian government already has the ADATS equipment. I have also been told that every nation that has held the Olympic Games has always deployed land-based air defence systems. Why would we not do it?

Rumour has it that the United States would protect the air space. I hope that will not be the case, because Canada has the necessary equipment to do it and I don't see why it would not do it.

Mr. Donaldson, there is a group responsible for the famous Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Strategy of the Government of Canada. Will that group be deployed in the region of the Olympic Games in the event of a chemical, nuclear or other attack?

I would also like you to talk to us about the Joint Task Force, JTF-2. In the event of a hostage-taking, will it be on alert in Vancouver? We know that the task force was created for that purpose. Without revealing its location or any state secrets, I would like to know whether that task force will be on duty during the Olympic Games.

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

Thank you for your questions. Let me answer them in order.

To the first question, there is a comprehensive air surveillance and security plan that is put in place. My command is working in partnership with NORAD, which is a binational command—not a U.S. command—that is responsible for aerospace surveillance and control of North America. It is clearly the appropriate agency with the expertise necessary to deal with a complex air security environment. In this case we work with the RCMP because many of the foreseeable problems are really policing problems, not military problems, but we have a long history of cooperating together to ensure that we keep Canadians safe and secure.

There's a number of different layered approaches to surveillance, involving a number of different types of surveillance assets: space-based, ground-based, and air-based. There is a range of response options that are being modelled. I don't wish actually to comment on the specific instruments we will deploy during the games, because I think that's not really helpful to our ability to control the whole environment. I will say that the Vancouver environment is a particularly challenging one for a ground-based missile system to have effect in very many scenarios. We're taking that into consideration as we look at the comprehensive air security plan during the games.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You can't tell me whether there the ADATS will be there, is that correct?

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

I can't say, sir.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You can't say to the members who are responsible for this issue. The committee is concerned about security issues. I am not asking you where they will be installed. It seems to me that it would be a deterrent to terrorists to know that the ADATS is there. They might not use Canada to strike a blow or whatever. It would be easy for you to tell the members.

You said there will be several layers of protection. Personally, if I were a terrorist and I knew the ADATS had been installed, that would deter me. It would perhaps be wise for you to say it publicly.

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

Sir, I would happily say that any terrorist who is planning activity against the Vancouver 2010 Olympics should be discouraged by the measures we have in place.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

But we can't know the measures.

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

Sir, there's a full range of measures that will be in place, including CF-18s that will be there and patrolling. We've seen them and a number of others practising. Obviously there is a scalable response that is attuned to the threat level we expect, but I think it would be inappropriate and probably premature for me to declare categorically whether ADATS would be part of that layered defence arrangement.

In terms of NORAD in Colorado Springs, sir, NORAD is a binational command, as I say. It is headquartered in Colorado Springs, but the Canadian NORAD region is based in Canada. The air component commander will be fully connected with the games commander, with the RCMP, and will be able to manage that theatre as any other. So I wouldn't characterize that as being the United States looking after security at all. Canadians are looking after security for the games.

You asked about CBRNE.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Donaldson, the time is up for Mr. Bachand, but if you could give all these answers in writing to the committee, it would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Now I will give the floor to Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Perhaps you can have a chance to elaborate when I ask my question.

First of all, I was going to welcome you all and to say there is every reason to be impressed with the level of detail in the planning that's gone into this exercise. I had occasion many months ago to become aware of some of the detailed planning for the torch relay, and I am certainly impressed with the level of foresight and interest the RCMP has taken in that. So I think Canadians can be assured that a lot of work they are not aware of has happened, and hopefully others will be deterred in knowing that our officials have been so active.

I do have a question for Vice-Admiral Donaldson. One small sentence in your presentation refers to the United States, but I have an article from The Seattle Times of October 2, stating that “Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is touring the new $4 million Olympics Coordination Center in Bellingham, Washington”, which the article refers to as “a key part of the U.S. law enforcement and counterterrorism efforts for the 2010 Winter Olympics in British Columbia”. It goes on to say that “About 25 to 30 agencies will have representatives at the center to plan for possible riots or terrorism, as well as floods or snowstorms”.

As a Canadian, it concerns me that we have an American operation in Bellingham, Washington—which of course is right on the border with Canada—where there are Americans planning for riots or terrorism. I guess terrorism is something everyone needs to be concerned about, but exactly what role does the centre play and what role will those 25 or 30 agencies—which I'm assuming are American—represented at this U.S. law enforcement and counter-terrorism center be playing in your security efforts? What are the arrangements with respect to that, or are there any? Or is this something that's not accurate at all?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, the Bellingham centre is entirely an American operational centre, and it's responsible for any security issues south of the border. It obviously would have connections to our centres in Canada, but at the end of the day it is intended for American security issues, not Canadian ones.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So you are suggesting they have no role inside our border, that this is purely internal to the United States and that these 25 or 30 agencies are concerned about riots in Bellingham, Washington, and not anywhere else associated with the games?

[Ward Elcock]

I'm not sure what their precise concerns are, or why they have built it the way they've built it, but these are entirely with respect to operations within the United States.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Vice-Admiral Donaldson, could you then elaborate on your sentence where you said:

It is no exaggeration to say that the progress we've achieved in the governance structure, planning amongst other government departments and with our U.S. partners, has been moving us all to a more considered and deliberate method of preparing for special security events

Is that just a comment on the learning process? I know there's coordination through NORAD, obviously, but is that the extent of it in regard to U.S. military or agency involvement, as referred to here?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, before Admiral Donaldson responds, if you look at the location of the Olympics, in point of fact there has been American involvement by definition from the very beginning. Some of the air exclusion zones, for example, take in American airspace, so the FAA has been part of those from the beginning.

Similarly, NORAD is a binational command structure. We work with NORAD—and the admiral, I'm sure, will want to speak to that—to ensure that air security is provided. They are our partner for air security. Regarding the Canadian navy and the American navy, the U.S. offshore begins very quickly. As you probably know, our ferries from the terminal back right into U.S. waters as they head off to Victoria. As the U.S. border starts soon, the coast guard and the American navy have been part, in a sense, of our efforts or collaborating with us in ensuring security for the Olympics.

So by definition, we've been working with our partners for some considerable period of time and have continuing law enforcement and military relationships back and forth across the border. The border is very close. There are issues on which both sides have to work together.

[VAdm Bruce Donaldson]

Indeed, sir, on a daily basis we cooperate with U.S. forces to make sure that we have a shared awareness of our common security threats. We have a shared awareness of activities off our coasts, and we have a shared awareness of how our forces are posturing, so that we understand what is happening, particularly around the border when things are happening close to where we're doing business.

So I would characterize it as a very close and friendly partnership that fully respects national responsibilities for safety and security, that fully respects national sovereignty, and that makes best use of our resources to come up with a common understanding of what we are facing.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you. I appreciate that. And clearly, we all understand the nature of the border, on land and sea and in the air, and that all of that coordination takes place.

The implication from this article seemed to be that there was a role inside Canada for these U.S. agencies, and I'm encouraged to hear you suggest that's not the case and that it's basically a Canadian responsibility what happens inside Canada.

I have another question, perhaps more for clarification than anything. You referred, Vice-Admiral Donaldson, to the potential threats and you outlined some of them. One of them you called “criminal protests, and a hostage taking”. We understand there can be significant or serious criminal activities undertaken in the guise of a protest, but I do have concerns with that phraseology of yours, because as a lawyer, and as any lawyer would know, it's very easy to find within the Criminal Code methods of declaring a particular form of protest that most people might consider to be within the bounds of expression as criminal because it's in violation of parts of the Criminal Code dealing with unlawful assembly, causing a disturbance, or other parts of the code, which could turn these protests into criminal activities.

Could you tell us, Commissioner McDonell, what you would define as a criminal protest? Because I'm assuming it will be your people who will be defining that and determining whether such a thing is taking place.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

A criminal protest is as you said: it will be defined in the Criminal Code of Canada as causing a disturbance or damaging property. That would be an example of a criminal protest, and we have measures and resources in place to deal with a protest that gets out of hand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I'm not happy with that response, but I know my time is up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. Yes, your time is up.

I will give the floor to Mr. Braid.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, if Mr. Harris was quoting from a source, could he be so kind as to table that source with the committee, just so I can have that information?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I'd be very happy to. Unfortunately, it's only in English.

[An hon. member]

That's too bad.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

We have translation services. It's up to you if you don't want to table your source.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I said I'd be happy to, Mr. Chairman, and I'd like the record corrected to indicate that. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here this morning and for your very thorough presentations.

There's clearly a very impressive level of coordination that's going on among government departments and agencies, and after hearing the presentations this morning I have no doubt that our security mandate will be fulfilled with the high degree of professionalism we've come to know from our Canadian police forces and security and military personnel.

I would like to start with this question. I presume that you've done some consultation with organizers of previous games and that there are certain best practices that exist, that have been learned over time, and that we are going to incorporate into a successful Canadian Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Could you elaborate a little bit on what consultations with previous games organizers have been held and what some of these best practices you've incorporated are?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, the IOC does encourage exchanges between previous Olympic games and current Olympic games, if you will, and future Olympic games. So those meetings do take place on a fairly regular basis, and I've certainly attended some. I'm sure the assistant commissioner has—and I know others have too.

We have learned some lessons from them. There are some things you can learn from other games. The reality is that each games are in some sense unique; they take place in very different places, sometimes with very different issues and very different problems. So sometimes the solutions of one games are not the solutions of the next set of games. We have learned some things, but the reality is that each one is a pretty unique situation, and in some cases you learn what not to do as much as what to do.

I don't know if you want to comment, Pat.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

That pretty well covers it.

I visited Beijing prior to the commencement of their games. There were a few things we learned from Beijing—but very few. The laws are different there. The make-up of the venues, the footprint of the games, was much different from what we have in Vancouver.

The subject-matter experts who work under me have visited other Olympic games and have brought home some best practices. But when they bring them home, they have to take these best practices and fit them into a Canadian policing model. So these are somewhat modified by the time we put them into operations here in Canada.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Very good.

In responses to some previous questions, you've touched on the type of cooperation and collaboration that we're having with the authorities in the United States. Could you extend that beyond the U.S. and speak to the cooperation and collaboration we're having with other international partners leading up to our games?

[Ward Elcock]

I'm not quite sure what you're thinking of in terms of “other international” cooperation. Most of that in fact is fostered through the IOC. They are, after all, the international body dealing with the games and have a lot of experience in how to manage an Olympic games and some of the issues that come up. They've actually been quite useful in some of the conversations we've had with them.

In terms of other international bodies, really, the focus is North American at this point. Apart from visiting some other Olympic sites and talking to those who have held other Olympics, there are not a whole lot of other parties to whom we've ventured in looking for best practices for the Olympics.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Looking ahead to the actual games, can you give us some insight into what the security operations will look like on a daily basis, and what the communications among the various agencies involved will look like as well?

[Ward Elcock]

Assistant Commissioner McDonell may want to speak to that in more detail.

Frankly, I think the structure the ISU has in place, and the number of organizations represented there, and the communications through the games coverage and urban domain areas are superb. It's a complicated area, but having said that, I think they've put in place an enormously capable structure.

My expectation is, and I think we said this at the beginning, that while we want to put in place all of the security requirements that would be needed to deal with potential threats of virtually any kind—or certainly any kind we can imagine, and we spent a fair bit of time thinking through all of those things—those security parameters will be there. We will have the tools to deal with whatever happens.

Having said that, it hasn't been our goal to create an oppressive environment with armed soldiers and armed policemen on every single corner just for the sake of their visibility. We hope people will experience the games as an athletic event, not a security event surrounded by soldiers and police. So on a daily basis, I think people will not see enormous numbers of police and security people. Hopefully there will be no events that will require that to happen, but we will have the security tools there if they're required.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

What logistics will be in place to facilitate communication and coordination on a daily basis?

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

I can define some of our command and control structure.

We'll have commands throughout the field and in various spots throughout it. We have two footprints, one in Whistler and one in Vancouver, because you have the events up in Whistler and down in Vancouver. Those footprints will be covered off. The commands in the field in particular venues will be reporting up to a command in Whistler and a command in Vancouver, and they'll feed into what we call the “Gold Command”, an overall command, which is highly integrated with our partners from the Canadian Forces. Other security partners will also be in that integrated command centre.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Braid.

Now I'll give the floor to Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, gentlemen. I know it's always a daunting task when you're dealing with security in this day and age. I appreciate your efforts.

Back on July 28, when the U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security was asked if there was any agreement in place to allow armed U.S. security forces to enter Canada during the Olympics, she wouldn't comment. When politicians don't comment there's obviously a lot of room for interpretation.

It was mentioned that there's a $4.5-million U.S. Olympic operations centre that will have two briefings a day. I assume some kind of strategy will be in place in case a threat so close to the border means that the United States could be called upon. Can you elaborate on that and tell us whether that's the case?

[Ward Elcock]

We have no expectations at this point of any American contribution to the security effort for the games, apart from the ones I talked about earlier in the context of offshore, the border, and so on, where cooperation is ongoing every single day.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

But an expectation and a contingency plan are two different things.

[Ward Elcock]

We have put in place no plans for armed American security to arrive to help us provide security for the games.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I take it you feel that we have adequate resources in place to deal with any security threat, externally or internally.

[Ward Elcock]

We believe we have put in place the tools required to deal with any potential security threats to the games.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Proulx, you have the floor.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for participating in our question and answer session.

I would like to ask a brief question. I don't think it causes problems in security terms, but I would like to talk about a problem that is of great concern to us. You knew in recent months that the government had not allocated enough money to provide for perfect bilingualism, wall-to-wall bilingualism, at the Olympics. That concerns me.

There are two points in terms of security. First, in operational terms, both the RCMP and the Canadian Forces will have personnel from Quebec and New Brunswick who are not necessarily completely bilingual.

Second, in terms of working with the public, will you have enough resources so that all Canadians, both English-speaking and French-speaking, can be served and informed properly and so that you can communicate with them properly?

[Ward Elcock]

Assistant Commissioner McDonell may want to add more detail, but large numbers of officers who speak French will be drawn from police forces across the country. In fact, a large portion of the police effort will be drawn from police forces other than the RCMP, and I think one of the largest contingents will be from Quebec.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That's the Sûreté du Québec?

[Ward Elcock]

Among other services from Quebec, there will be the Sûreté du Québec and the Montreal city police.

Pat, you may want to add to that.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

We have 22 police forces from Quebec contributing officers to the security efforts. And then in the central region of Quebec of course most of our members speak French and English, and then from New Brunswick and here in headquarters. So as far as RCMP, I believe we're furnishing as many bilingual officers as we can. With 22 police forces in Quebec providing officers--although you never have enough—we'll have a substantial number of police officers who speak the two official languages of Canada.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Do you think that will be enough?

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

When we look at major events we always try to do better in placing bilingual officers in the front lines at venues, where they'll interact with the public. The mobilization coordinator in this instance is looking at the language profile of the officers coming in and trying to put them in the front lines in duties where they will meet, greet, and interact with the public.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, gentlemen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Proulx.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It's my understanding that Canada and the United States, especially along the border areas, conduct joint exercises both for disaster situations as well as for security, and that the Canada Border Services and the U.S. work cooperatively. Would you please describe some of the joint exercises that occur on a routine basis?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, the admiral or Assistant Commissioner McDonell may want to comment on the ongoing exercises.

The reality is, for the Olympics, this has been a huge exercise program. As we alluded to, there is a central exercise program that we have called, for a lack of a better set of titles, bronze, silver, and gold. Bronze and silver have happened; gold is next week. But there have been literally hundreds of other exercises, across the country in some cases, but mostly focused in Vancouver, as different organizations test out the various parts of what will be required for the security effort. There have been exercises that have involved our American partners. Some of them focused on the border. There have been ones with the military focused on the offshore, NORAD, and so on. There are a whole slew of exercises quite apart from whatever happens on the basis of a day-to-day working relationship at the border or between the military and the U.S. military.

I don't know if either of you want to add to that. It's a huge exercise program. There are literally hundreds of exercises.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

We'll be exercising Shiprider. That's an exercise that we've done here on the Great Lakes. Shiprider is with the RCMP on a U.S. Coast Guard vessel and American law enforcement on our marine craft. That way, if we interdict or attempt to interdict a vessel that crosses that line out there, we can take the necessary appropriate action and have the resources on board who have the legal authority. So Shiprider will be in play during the Olympics.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

When a situation does arise where our security personnel are on one another's border with Canada and the United States--for example, during the clean-up after the hurricane in New Orleans--is it required for our soldiers, who did provide some supplies in New Orleans, to respect the laws of both Canada and the United States while they're in that country? If so, does the same apply to American security agencies? Must they respect their laws as well as ours when they are in our country?

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

We have a civil assistance plan that lays out the provision of support under conditions like this. Obviously when we're helping the United States with a disaster, we would respect U.S. law and we would respect Canadian law. We would be focused very much on doing good and not doing harm. That's really the orientation we go down with. I think we look very carefully at the types of activities we're involved in to make sure there are appropriate limits to that and that we are doing good.

Does that address your question?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes.

At the present time, is the United States at a higher so-called security level than Canada? Do they consider themselves now to be at war?

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

I can't really speak to how the U.S. characterizes itself or their security posture.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay, very good.

Can you describe at all the process of getting troops to Vancouver and also their eventual withdrawal after the games?

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

The transfer of people has been already exercised a few times for Exercises Silver and Spartan Rings that I described. We use Canadian Forces aircraft. We use trucks. We use trains. We use chartered airlift. There are a number of different methods to deliver people into theatre at the right times. There's been a fair amount of communication back and forth to make sure that at least the leadership and the initial elements were in place at the right time, that we were able to set up the theatre so that we can flow the forces in when it's time to do it. Quite a lot of planning has gone into making sure that the right resources are available to deliver people at the right time and to take them back out again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gallant.

Mr. Paillé, you have the floor.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here.

I have a lot of questions, so I am going to give some of them priority and I will ask that you give written answers for the others.

Mr. Elcock, I would like to be sure that this was a typing mistake and not a strategic mistake. In your document, it says that the Olympic Games will take place from the 12th to the 18th of February, but my information is that it is the 12th to the 28th of February. It would be a shame if the hockey game and the closing ceremonies were not covered by your security service. But I suppose that is simply a mistake.

I would like some information about accommodations. I am the Bloc Québécois sports critic. I visited Vancouver this summer to check out the facilities. I gathered that one of the biggest problems, apart from services in French, which we have already discussed, accommodations are a problem, primarily in the Whistler region. I would like you to tell us about how accommodations are being organized and all of the personnel who will be assigned to Whistler.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

I can answer that from the RCMP perspective. Accommodations were a great challenge for us both in the greater Vancouver area and in Whistler. In Whistler accommodations were a combination: a lot were private and there were some hotels. Placing the workforce in Whistler was a big challenge for us, and we had to get out early many months ago to find the appropriate accommodations for the people. In some cases they're renting houses, condominiums, and apartments. It was a challenge.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

We talked about rising costs. Would it be possible that situations might arise during the Olympic Games that might mean you would have to deploy more resources and there might be another cost increase?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, at this juncture I don't have an expectation that there would be a rise in cost, but the reality is if there were an incident of a proportion that required additional resources beyond anything we've currently planned for, then obviously there may be, but at this juncture I don't foresee that happening. But we would be ready to deal with it were it to happen.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you.

I would like you to send me the answers to my next two questions in writing.

First, could you tell me whether you have a plan for your various services to deal with the H1N1 flu? I know that at present there is a special situation, but the Olympic Games will be held in February. Have you arranged a scenario in that event that involves assigning more personnel?

Have you arranged for relations with Immigration Canada, given that there may be refugee claims during the Olympic Games? In fact there have been situations like that in the past. Do you have a protocol or plan with Immigration Canada for how to handle that whole issue or is that something that is really under the authority of Immigration Canada?

[Ward Elcock]

If I might just ask on the second question, are you thinking of H1N1 in the context of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, because Citizenship and Immigration Canada is a major partner?

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Those are two different questions.

[Ward Elcock]

In the context of the second question, the easy answer is that the Department of Citzenship and Immigration is a key partner in terms of the accreditation process for anybody coming to the games, or anybody entering Canada at that point in time. But clearly the key part is accreditation, because accreditation at the games is in fact a visa to enter Canada. So for those two you get both at the same time, if you will. Citizenship and Immigration Canada is a key partner in that process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Paillé.

Mr. Boughen, you have the floor.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, allow me to add my voice to those of my colleagues in welcoming you here this morning. It's very nice of you to take time to share information with us.

I have one question that is an open-ended question, and I would invite any and all of the panel to respond to it. The question is really what have you seen as the biggest challenge in your planning to stage the games, and how have you dealt with it?

[Ward Elcock]

One of the biggest challenges is that this is a major event—it's a huge event involving a lot of people. In addition, it takes place in a complicated urban environment. Most winter games are not held in major urban centres like Vancouver. That, in and of itself, is a challenge.

Another big challenge is that we're running two separate footprints. They are connected by the Sea-to-Sky Highway, but the Sea-to-Sky Highway could in theory be closed. You can only get a helicopter up through that area 30% of the time. So we're running two separate footprints, and you have to build the capacity in each of those footprints to deal with whatever you worry about. That has been a major challenge.

I don't know whether you two want to add anything.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

For us, the major challenge has been mobilization—moving 6,000 police officers out into B.C., identifying them, and getting them accredited. Mind you, some of them are already there. But they all have to have accreditation, so we're working with the various police forces. We have 118 police forces supplying police officers, so you have to identify them by name and photo, transport them there, put them on accommodation, and then organize a 24-hour shift schedule for them.

What we're trying to do is make it an all-Canadian games from a security perspective. We want to have the Sûreté du Québec beside the Toronto police, beside the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, and not one police force by itself at a certain venue or place. That has been a big challenge for our mobilization people, much bigger than we anticipated.

[Vadm Bruce Donaldson]

The biggest challenge from my perspective has been forming a habit of open communication, seamless trust, and operating methodologies with our key partners and all the other security agencies. That has been a real challenge from our perspective, but it's also been a huge success story, and there will be lasting legacies. We're now able to understand each other better. We're able to draw on one another's strengths better, recognize one another's vulnerabilities and cover those off. We're able to imagine, in a way that we could not before, the whole of government planning security.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, gentlemen. We're appreciative of all your work on this mammoth task.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I realize that this is a public meeting and cameras are present. I would suggest that in future discussions of security issues, whether it's the Olympics or whatever, we should consider being in camera. It may or may not affect the witnesses' ability to respond. When you're asking about security issues, it's unlikely that you're going to get the answers you want if you're on national television. In the future, I would appreciate more advanced warning than I had this morning. That would be my recommendation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

Mr. Dosanjh.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I beg to differ with my colleague. I think it's important to have these meetings in public, so that the public can hear what the security people are doing and how they're doing it. If they want to tell us anything that might jeopardize security, then we can go in camera. I would rather have the option of having it open. I agree with the concern, but if security issues prevent them from giving us the answer in public, we can go in camera.

The operating principle that we should have is that the public has the right to know. If it doesn't have the right to know, then we have to tell the public why.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, at the same time, members of Parliament have the right to know, and if that is the case, then we should have two different meetings. In principle, it's fine to have public information, of course, but that's not the issue. The issue is if Mr. Bachand or anyone in here is asking a question, and we're told no because of security concerns, then that goes back to the whole issue of section 37 and 38. But the reality is that this information needs to be known. If there are reasons in camera why we cannot be told, then I guess we'll have to deal with it.

I want to register my concern. I think it is important that the public is certainly aware, but you know they're not the only ones who will be watching what it is we're talking about. I think it is important that we have that information.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

Mr. Bachand?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If we held a sitting in camera, would you be able to say more? Some people are saying that you can't. They also say that you wouldn't talk, even under torture. I would like to know whether it would be useful to request an in camera meeting. Would you be able to speak more freely to security issues like those I raised earlier?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Monsieur Elcock, can you answer that?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, that's a hard question to answer in the hypothetical, not knowing precisely what questions people might want to ask. And I've never been faced with torture yet, so I haven't actually had to decide what I would choose to do, although some people might describe some things as torture that I don't recognize as torture.

It is difficult. I think the reality for us is that in some respects it is easier to have discussions without cameras in the room, but the reality of the complexity of security and the real detail of security—whether it's in camera or not in camera—are issues we would not want to discuss. They're very closely held. It's important that we protect them. After the event they become less crucial, but prior to the event they're crucial.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Elcock.

I will give the floor to Mr. Storseth.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions I want to ask the witnesses.

I think this is, and will continue to be, a proud moment for our security services in our country, and furthermore for our country as a whole, as we get to display Canada's abilities not only to host, but to host a secure Olympics.

I would like to ask you a couple of quick questions. First, can you tell me approximately how many different countries or international security services or groups you're having to coordinate with for these Olympics?

[Ward Elcock]

There are about 80 countries who come to the Olympics. Every single one of those countries has a police force or an intelligence service or something. The reality is that we will be working with all of those security organizations of all those countries to try to ensure for their athletes a secure games.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Will each and every one of them have individual needs and wants?

[Ward Elcock]

Most teams come with a security team or security representative, so we'll be working with them.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

It's fair to say then that this isn't just about Canada and the United States. This is about Canada and the world, even when it comes to security services.

[Ward Elcock]

Given that it is an international event involving a lot of other countries, there are lot of other people we'll be working with. Obviously the security partnership between Canada and the United States is a very close one, but there are a number of others, as you say, we'll be working with.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Definitely, and it's one we're proud of.

Has there been any specialized linguistic and cultural training for security managers and experts, given that there are going to be 80 different countries coming? I'm assuming that there is some specialized linguistic training that has occurred.

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

In the RCMP, there hasn't been any special linguistic training, but what we've done is identify people with two, three, or four or more languages from our services and other police services. What the mobilization coordinators will do, or are attempting to do, is place them in a position to interact with the public and also identify through a label what languages they speak.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

So I'm assuming that French will be one of the languages we'll be able to look after at the games?

[Ward Elcock]

Absolutely.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Excellent.

I want to talk a bit about the process. First, I do have concerns about the housing for our military forces personnel and our RCMP officers. I understand the logistics of this is a problem, and obviously finding adequate housing resources can be a challenge, but I also want to be assured they will be having good standards. This is going to be an experience of a lifetime for them as well.

If we still had CFB Chilliwack open, would that not help the situation somewhat?

[A/Commr Pat McDonell]

I talked earlier about the facilities in Whistler. The facilities in Vancouver are somewhat different. As well as hotels, we're also on the accommodation vessels. There will be three accommodation vessels shared by us, the police officers from the RCMP, 118 other police forces, and the Canadian Forces. Those vessels meet the same standard as a hotel: the rooms and the accommodation throughout. Meals will be served there also.

[VAdm Bruce Donaldson]

And if I may, Mr. Chairman, we're used to living in subtly different conditions from other folks, and I would characterize the accommodation we have for the games as being very good. They will allow people to stay focused on the task. They will not be spending an inordinate amount of time surviving, which is what we do in some other environments. We are partnering with the RCMP to make use of some facilities in Chilliwack for some of our folks. So it works just as well as it would have in that respect.

We have a number of different sites. We've contracted accommodation support in around eleven sites, I think, either in living trailers in camps or with forestry services in the winter forestry tents and tent villages they construct. So I would say the standard of accommodation for the Canadian Forces is very good. We look after our people. Other people may not volunteer to stay there, but it works very well for us.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Excellent. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank our witnesses for being with us this morning. Thank you, Mr. Elcock, Mr. McDonell, Mr. Donaldson. I'm sure it is very useful for the members of this committee.

Thank you very much for being here with us today.

I am now going to suspend our proceedings for six minutes.