Evidence of meeting #7 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wonder if the navy has any projections in terms of how the environment will be affected by the number of ships that could increase if the Northwest Passage becomes a reality and becomes open for more than a small part of the year. We hear the sea ice is melting and that barrier to ocean travel is diminishing. What does the navy see as increased traffic due to those climatic changes, and how will that affect the environment of the north?
4:10 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I actually have some statistics going back a few years that show there has been a slow increase in the traffic we are seeing in the north. As my colleague from policy said, most of this traffic right now is from tourists; it's a destination. We do envision, though, that as the ice continues to melt you will see greater activity, but not necessarily in the Northwest Passage.
I'd like to explain a little bit about the Northwest Passage, what it is and what it isn't. What the Northwest Passage is to a mariner is a backcountry road with potholes. That's the best way to explain it. The northern sea route is a 400-series highway.
If you're not a mariner, you don't look at what's under the water; you just look at what's on top. As mariners, we look at what's under the water, because it's what stops us. And in the Northwest Passage, on the western side, it's very clogged. It's very dense with bergy bits, which are the small icebergs, about the size of a house. They float just above the surface of the water.
The problem is the climatic conditions in the north. You have high winds and poor visibility. So now those bergy bits that you could have seen in a flat, calm sea you can't see. They're as hard as a rock and they will sink a ship. That is the reality of the Northwest Passage, and that will be the reality for at least the next 20 to 30 years.
What we need is a pragmatic and staged approach on how we're going to deal with this. That's why I think things like the AOPS--the Arctic/offshore patrol ships--and developing the maritime domain awareness are so critical to building that front, so we know who's in our backyard and why. The other piece that's very interesting is that in Canada we have a 96-hour northern regulation that requires ships to report in prior to coming into our waters. It's mandatory.
We also have a series of other regulations that have actually been very effective: the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act, the UNCLOS. These are all regulations that have been adhered to by nations.
So we're actually in pretty good shape when it comes to that piece. Now it's how to move on to ensure that as water continues to be more open in the north, taking a polar view, we're prepared for that. That's going to be over the next 40 to 50 years. It's going to happen; we just need to be prepared.
There will be additional investment required. I think AOPS is a very good start. These ships will last 30 years, and by then we'll be looking at something else that we need for the next gap.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The British, the Americans, and the Danes certainly have done a lot of work on climate change and dealing with strategic issues in the north. Through you, Mr. Chairman, can you elaborate on the kind of interaction you've had so far with, in this case, our NATO partners in terms of the north, particularly in dealing with the changing ice floes, the fact that we're seeing parts of the shelf break off, and the impact this is having?
And I'll go back to the issue of tourists. We're getting a lot of tourist ships in the north, with people who don't necessarily know how to respond--it's not like sailing in the Mediterranean. What impact is that having in terms of having to go and rescue them?
4:15 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
When General Millar comes, I'm sure he'll be able to talk about some of the interactions at the operational level that they have had with the Danes. They've been talking to them in terms of sharing lessons learned in operations and so on. There have also been some contacts with Joint Task Force Alaska on the U.S. side. So at the operational level this channel of communication is being opened in terms of lessons learned and sharing best practices. That's already been happening.
There have been other fora. For example, you might be aware of a conference held in Reykjavik at the end of January. Our Chief of the Defence Staff attended. My deputy director was there as well. He went with people from Foreign Affairs. They met and they talked about these issues with some of their counterparts from NATO countries. So there have been some discussions.
I'll just add that a lot of NATO countries have come to the same conclusion as we have, that the north is not an area where we see a conventional military threat, so there is not a specific military role for NATO. But this is an area we need to pay attention to. We need to look at where we can cooperate more with other countries.
4:15 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I can't really comment on details of specific issues we've dealt with on climate change. Those discussions have not occurred within my office, so I'm not aware of them. They may very well have happened. But on a strategic level, we have had military-to-military discussions, and they are ongoing, on how we are going to cooperate in the north.
The north is a vast territory that's essentially untapped, which means we have a chance to cooperate with the league of arctic nations on how we're going to deal with some of the issues in the north. I think this dialogue will continue as the years progress. We have a chance to get this right.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
In terms of getting it right, you indicated you report directly to the head of the armed forces or the chief of staff, and I assume he has taken a particularly strong interest in this, from what I have read so far.
4:15 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I completed an Arctic estimate and presented it to our commanders two weeks ago. The chief is very much focused on the Arctic and how we will work with our other government departments to ensure that we are responding appropriately to issues in the north. So the answer is yes.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
I don't know if this is a fair question to ask either of you. In terms of a whole-of-government approach, are there things we are not doing currently that would streamline both the sharing of information and the ability to respond more effectively? Is there anything you are looking at that we could make recommendations towards?
4:15 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
I can't answer for the operational commanders in Canada Command, but I'm sure they'll have some suggestions.
At the strategic level in Ottawa, for example, a number of interdepartmental committees deal with the Arctic on a weekly or monthly basis at both the ADM and DM levels. So there is information sharing. I've been working on the Arctic files for about seven or eight years now, and a lot of progress has been made. So right now it's working fairly well at the strategic level.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
March 11th, 2009 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm really pleased to see these gentlemen here today. I appreciate your coming to bring forward your expertise to our committee and enlighten us on some of the issues around the Arctic.
It is becoming more and more important, as we have seen over the last number of years and months. Our government has suggested that we create a deepwater port in Nanisivik for Canada's Arctic fleet. Can you let us know what stage that port is currently at?
4:20 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I'm going to check my notes here because I want to get my facts right. Somehow I think I'll be quoted if I get them wrong, so I want to make sure I get them right.
The request for proposal is currently ongoing for the deepwater port in Nanisivik. We expect to see an implementation for approval in 2010 or early 2011. The port will be fully operational by about 2015.
The port will essentially be a fuel depot. It will have a jetty and fuel stocks, and then it will develop over time. But right now we're putting in the infrastructure to support that austere environment I talked about earlier. By about 2015 we should see it operational. It will be operational during the periods when it's ice free. So we're not going to have a station commander there—I certainly hope it won't be me—for a 12-month period, but there will be activity during the periods when the port is open.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
It'll be a government port, so there will be Canadian Coast Guard, Fisheries, and DND vessels. This is not just for DND; it's for the Government of Canada. I don't know if civilians will be given access to it, but I know it's going to be an all-of-government port for Canada.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
Do you have any estimates on when the port will be open once it's up and running?
4:20 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
It will probably be open for three to four months every year. Those are the times when it's ice free. The rest of the time it's blocked in by ice and you can't access it.
4:20 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
It will be basically during the navigable season, so when there are ships in the Arctic we'll be there to support operations.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
If any foreign vessels have emergencies, would they have access to that port?
4:20 p.m.
Cmdre D. Gardam
I can't see why they wouldn't.
Understand what the port is. It's a jetty with four or five bollards to tie ships up, and a fuel depot. That's it. But I cannot see why we would refuse someone the use of that facility if they required it, because there would be no purpose to that.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Pascal-Pierre Paillé Bloc Louis-Hébert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here today. You stated here that there is increased shipping and that new shipping routes in the Arctic are currently being studied. I would like to know when you plan to release the results of these studies.
4:20 p.m.
Director, Policy Development, Assistant Deputy Minister - Policy, Department of National Defence
What I mean by that is that countries are trying to determine where the ice will melt first and what would be the best routes to take through the Arctic Ocean. There's the route that goes above the North Pole, which is the transpolar route. If one day, perhaps in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years, there is no more ice in summer, that would be a very direct route between Europe and Asia. There is also the northeast route which passes just north of Russia. This route is also open during the navigable season. And there is the Northwest Passage. So all these routes are being looked at. However, as we said earlier, I have the impression that of the three, it is the latter that will be open, simply because of the ice conditions that are specific to Canada. So I was referring to these routes.
