Evidence of meeting #19 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Okay.
On April 17, 2013, the Canadian Psychiatric Association recommended that the Canadian Armed Forces conduct periodic screening for PTSD and common comorbid conditions such as major depressive disorders, addictions, and suicide so as to enhance early detection and facilitate treatment.
How frequently do the Canadian Armed Forces conduct such periodic screening?
12:35 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
The routine ones are at recruitment initially, with the routinely scheduled periodic health assessments that occur regularly, before every deployment overseas, after every deployment overseas with a very detailed evaluation, during subsequent periodic health assessments, and again at release.
In addition, for every routine assessment or during care for a runny nose or whatever brings someone in contact with the health system, there are also usually informal evaluations. All our clinicians are sensitized to do that, right down to the level of the medical technician.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jack Harris
Thank you, General.
Your time is up.
Ms. Murray, you have five minutes.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Could you tell me how many suicides there have been in the forces and the reserves since September 1?
12:35 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
Since September 1?
12:35 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
We keep the numbers by calendar year, so I'd have to look back. But since January 1, we've had three members of the reserve commit suicide. Those are still pending confirmation by coroner or police.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Would you be able to provide us the numbers since September 1?
12:35 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
I could, from September 1 until now.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay. Thank you.
How many of the 37 hires to fill that gap were psychologists and psychiatrists, and how many of the remaining gap are psychologists and psychiatrists?
12:35 p.m.
Director General, Civilian Human Resources Management Operations, Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources - Civilian, Department of National Defence
I have that.
There are six positions required for psychologists. Two of those have been filled so there are four remaining.
I have numbers only for psychologists, social workers, mental health nurses, addictions.... I don't have a number for psychiatrists. I have the psychologist requirement as six; social worker as 21, of which we have 11; mental health nurse—
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
So the psychologists and psychiatrists are the hardest to fill, you were saying?
12:40 p.m.
Director General, Civilian Human Resources Management Operations, Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources - Civilian, Department of National Defence
They are.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
And it's hardest to fill the spots at remote bases. Hence the advice to have uniformed clinical psychologists, because they can then be posted to these remote bases.
DND has contracted out a significant portion of the health care to a private company. Do you have numbers for average turnover for Calian-contracted doctors versus for those directly employed by DND or by the Canadian Armed Forces, so the comparison between turnover for contracted-out positions and for the hired positions?
12:40 p.m.
Director General, Civilian Human Resources Management Operations, Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources - Civilian, Department of National Defence
I apologize, but I don't have that statistic. I track only the positions that are public servants. I don't know about the Calian contractor turnover.
12:40 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
I don't have objective data, ma'am, but we know that because the Calian contract permits Calian to readily respond to local market forces, they can modify the compensation to retain Calian contractors, so we have had many who tended to stay for a very long time.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
So you have no statistics on what the relative turnover is. Okay, thank you.
You were saying, General Bernier, that your department is not responsible for care for spouses. My question is how often does the armed forces survey military spouses about their mental health needs and the quality of support services available to them?
12:40 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
There is a separate organization called the director general for military personnel research that conducts research related to families of military personnel.
I'm not sure if there is a survey ongoing, but there was one done within the last few years. I believe there is one taking place right now to evaluate the kinds of services required for families.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
12:40 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
I couldn't answer accurately because it's not within my scope of responsibilities.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
I understand that and I know that because you've been saying a number of times that you work as a team that you probably are aware of these matters as well and because how important it is to the physical and mental well-being of our armed forces members that their families are properly supported. So I'm sure it's an area of interest.
What were the results of the last survey? What did it indicate in terms of the mental health needs and the quality of support services available to spouses?
12:40 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
Again, I'd have to defer that to the person responsible for that, support to families.
12:40 p.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
But I can tell you that we did expand from 220-something mental health professionals to 447. Twenty-five percent of that increase was specifically to deal with the family involvement by mental health staff in the care of military personnel. We include them in our strengthening the forces health promotion social wellness programs, including anger management, stress management, addictions, various related factors that contribute to good or bad mental health...are open to families. The road to mental readiness program has a big family element to it that's offered to all family members.
In the evaluations pre- and post-deployment and in operational trauma and stress support centres, the family is involved in the assessment to ensure that everything is captured.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jack Harris
Thank you, General.
Sorry, Ms. Murray, your time is now up, in fact it exceeded by a fair bit.
Based on the time that we have left in our meeting, there appears not to be time for another round. We would go back to our first round which is four speakers. There not being time for that, I think we'll end the rounds. As is the tradition, there's a prerogative for the chair to ask a few questions. So I would seek to use some of that time to do that.
So Colonel Bernier, I was interested first of all in your assessment of the overall mental health expectations for members of the Canadian Armed Forces and you suggested that it was one in four, or one in five of the general population would have a mental health episode in their lifetime.
Can I suggest to you first of all, you don't really have people for their lifetime, you only have them from, say, 18 to 40 or 45? Secondly, you screen people presumably at the beginning of this period for any sign of mental health issues. You're not dealing obviously with the issues that relate to seniors and mental health as well. So your baseline for expectations would be lower than the general population to start with. Am I correct about that?