Evidence of meeting #19 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thank you. Thank you for being here to help us understand the work being done by the armed forces to support those who are ill and injured.
Just a follow up on my colleague's question on this side. With respect to the re-evaluation of the number of medical mental health professionals needed, when will you have that review done, and a recommendation?
11:35 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
Thank you, ma'am.
The 2014...the analysis of those two major surveys will be completed. Subsequent to that, it will probably be a couple of months of evaluation to determine matching the distribution of and the anticipated projected need over the years, based on the data that comes out of there. It will take probably two months after that.
Probably early 2015 we'll do a complete re-evaluation. It could turn out that we have too many. Or it could turn out that the skill distribution is not right, that we need other skill sets. We don't know. We know that we're currently at double—
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Ok. Thank you. Now could I—as you know, my time is short and I have quite a few questions—I'm going to your mental health strategy. On page 27, you say that:
Our success depends not only on the quality of our services and system, but equally on establishing the trust and confidence necessary for CAF members to present for, and to remain engaged in, mental health care.
Now would you say that you have succeeded with that, and that you have successfully established that trust and confidence in terms of the members and their families, as well? That there will be the proper support and care?
11:35 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
We don't have the mandate to look after the families, but we have succeeded to some extent, and we have objective data to demonstrate it with respect to people presenting for care. There's still reluctance: 90% of those people who don't show up for care don't show up because they think their problem doesn't merit it. We know from hard data that we have the lowest rate of stigma for presentation of all the Anglo-Saxon allied nations. We know that people are in care far earlier than they were in the past, just a few years ago. I can give you all those details.
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
No, we still have challenges. One of the big challenges is that if the troops don't trust there are two problems. One is if the troops perceive that operational stress injuries are the only things that are important and that the bulk of illnesses that come from the routine exposures of day-to-day life are less important, which is sometimes what is represented in society. Some of those folks will feel guilty about presenting for care and taking away from what they misperceive is an overwhelmed system, and then they don't get care and they will downward spiral.
The second thing is if they don't trust the quality of system. If there is any misrepresentation about the reality of the care they'll get, that also discourages individuals from presenting themselves for care.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Then we hear from members and their families that the quality of the system is not there for them.
I've been listening to the other questions in French, which is not my first language, so what I understood you to say is that you've determined that there's not a need for uniformed registered psychologists in the employ of the armed forces and that psychiatrists are filling that gap. And I think you mentioned that you came to that decision a year ago. Did I hear your testimony correctly?
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
No. We're currently re-evaluating whether to our psychologists we would add uniformed psychologists. We have psychologists. We need them and we use them extensively.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Yes. I'm talking about uniformed clinical psychologists. Is that a need or not a need from your perspective?
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
Until now, we haven't found a need for it because the only reason we would have them in uniform is for deployed operations.
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
But we're re-evaluating now as to whether or not.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
So if you didn't find a need for it, I'm really confused by that, because exactly a year ago the Director of Mental Health, Colonel Scott McLeod, wrote a briefing to the minister himself saying:
Clinical psychologists have unique skill sets that the other mental health professionals do not have and are crucial in the assessment and treatment of mental health conditions. However, there are no uniformed clinical psychologists in the CAF to support deployed operations.
And he goes on to make a very strong case and a recommendation that “...there is strong indication that the addition of a uniformed clinical psychology capability would greatly enhance the mental health care of CAF members...”. So do you disagree with the conclusions of Colonel McLeod?
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
No, in fact, I approved that briefing note.
We need psychologists. That's why we have them. The question is do we need them in deployed operations.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Okay, the recommendation is about uniformed clinical psychologists and the case that's made here is that they are needed in the CAF to support deployed operations. So I'm confused about why you're now saying it's not needed.
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
No. What I said in French is that we're conducting an evaluation of whether we need it overseas. So up until now, up until this evaluation and our experience in Afghanistan, we didn't find a need for them. However, as a result of the experience of others as a result of the experience of Afghanistan—
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Excuse me, I'm really confused. This briefing note says that you do need them, and this is from a year ago. So I'm not sure why you're saying that you're re-evaluating because you didn't think there was a need for them.
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
That briefing note was the launch.... If you look at the end of the briefing note, you'll see that it talks about the need for us to evaluate but within a year there will be a re-evaluation of whether or not we need uniformed psychologists.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
This is a request for funding. So this talked about using the $11 million in it. This is as clear as you can get from my perspective.
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
We have psychologists. The question is whether or not do we need them—
11:40 a.m.
BGen Jean-Robert Bernier
Yes. We have clinical psychologists.
