National Defence Committee on Oct. 21st, 2014

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

My question relates to an account in the media recently that the number of CF-18s now being deployed both in this area and in Iraq reduces the functional availability of CF-18s for every other purpose that we might need for our national security to about 22 aircraft.

Do you have a concern about the extension of CF-18s outside of Canada's borders in terms of what's available here? Secondly, what is the projected time of return of the CF-18s from eastern Europe, or are they there until further notice?

[MGen Michael Hood]

In answer to your first question, there's no impact to the standing roles and missions of the F-18 in the Royal Canadian Air Force. Our NORAD commitments are met and both of these deployments fall within our expeditionary capability with redundancy. That's actually an area that I'm responsible for day-to-day, so I can say that quite confidently.

With respect to the length of time of this Baltic air policing mission, our block that we signed up for finishes at the end of this year, and the plan right now is that our F-18s will return shortly thereafter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Ms. Murray.

We'll move on now to our second round of questions, five minutes each, beginning with Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses.

Mr. Harris and I had the opportunity to be in Vilnius this spring for the NATO PA conference. At that conference they told us that every time they heard a fighter jet go overhead, it reminded them of how vulnerable they were. Indeed, just by virtue of our having the conference in Vilnius they felt more secure. One of the three things they asked us for was joint exercises. The feedback that we are receiving from our colleagues, MPs in other NATO countries, especially the Baltics, is that they are extremely grateful for being heard and for the cooperation.

Now, part of the NATO strategic concept asks emphasizes a new cooperation in cyber-defence. Indeed, we see that the Prime Minister, in Wales, for the NATO centres of excellence, one of them being cyber-defence, has committed an extra $1 million to the centre of strategic communications, as well as energy security as a third pillar. So all those combinations of things are helping in these exercises that we've been discussing. Mr. Harris and I were at that NATO Energy Security Centre of Excellence, and they asked for Canada to be on their map and be a part of this organization, so we're very pleased that we're working there.

My question has to do with cyber-defence. Now that we have an element of participation in the centre of excellence, with respect to operation reassurance, do we have any more involvement in that particular organization than we had previously?

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

At this stage we're quite pleased to see the investment and be able to share some of our own experience in that field. But that's pretty well the main area. There is no other element associated to the work that we're doing.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Right.

I was pleased to welcome home the soldiers from 3 RCR in Petawawa after Exercise Orzel Alert. We know collectively here what a difference that makes, but can you tell us what message it sends to the Russians when we have these joint exercises?

[MGen Michael Hood]

I would reiterate that I think the goal of our efforts and NATO efforts was twofold...to reassure our partners. From every report that we've had, whether it's from the Romanian CHOD or others, I think they very much appreciated the opportunity to operate with us. There was a lot of great learning that was going on, on both sides, from many of these countries. They don't have all that many opportunities to exercise high end with F-18s, for example.

But again, to your latter points, the reassurance efforts and the deterrence and de-escalation, I would have to leave that for a NATO senior to offer a commentary. I'm not really in a position to comment.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So Exercise Gniezno was a Canadian-led exercise partnered with the Polish troops aimed at conducting a parachute insertion, followed by a reserve demolition guard at secured bridge sites. What does this say about Canada's role in NATO and our role in the reassurance measures that we are asked to lead in this operation?

[MGen Michael Hood]

I think we're recognized, certainly, for the skill and acumen of our soldiers, sailors, and aviators at every account. We would look for leadership opportunities because I think we have a lot to offer, and the fact that we were able to seamlessly do that on very short notice in this particular exercise speaks highly of the army element that we sent there, and their professionalism was acknowledged at very high levels.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

As you mentioned, the exercise that was done in Poland was very similar to what would have been done at a regular base. But what additional skills, training, and lessons would have been learned as a consequence of interacting with the Polish military?

[MGen Michael Hood]

Well, when we speak to interoperability, certainly Poland has their own unique procedures, different weaponry, and the rest, so the opportunity to work with a NATO ally that's not manned and equipped to same level as us is, I think, a useful experience such that if we were to operate with Poland in the future in any NATO mission, we would actually be that much further ahead by virtue of the confidence that comes from working at the tactical level like that.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you very much.

In terms of our allies in Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia being appreciative of our efforts, at your level do you hear that as well, as we hear it at the parliamentary level?

[MGen Michael Hood]

I would have to turn to my colleague on that. As I say, I don't have a chance personally to interact with them.

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

Neither do I; I have to admit that we don't have that opportunity regularly.

[MGen Michael Hood]

I think if you had General Lawson here, who sits at the NATO table, you would probably be getting congratulatory comments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Ms. Gallant.

Ms. Michaud, please.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for their presentation.

The details you are sharing with us about the mission, which the NDP has supported from the outset, are particularly useful.

It seems that one of the key objectives is interoperability. That is what appears to guide most of the operations and training exercises. In terms of air training, a wide range of aircraft are participating, including the Boeing F-15 Eagle for the United States and the F-16 fighter for Denmark. You have a good idea of the list. It also includes the CF-18s.

Can you tell us what you have noticed after the exercise in terms of NATO's current interoperability capabilities?

[MGen Michael Hood]

Absolutely. In fact, what I would offer is that with many of our closer NATO allies, if I would speak of the U.S., the United Kingdom, and France, we have many opportunities to work together. We're very seamless in operations. This has come through years and years of working together.

To comment on some of the newer NATO members, certainly the Romanians in this case operating former Soviet equipment I think was a great learning opportunity. In fact, the Romanian CHOD offered that the Romanians themselves had learned more about working with NATO from three months with Canada than they had in the previous times since they had joined NATO; it's that close in operations.

We spent a lot of time having our F-18 pilots work very closely with the Romanian pilots, for example, in skills that they don't get to exercise regularly by virtue of the missions they do. I think undoubtedly the level of interoperability has increased as a result of our interventions.

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

If I may, I will say that there is also a naval presence in addition to the air presence.

We have gone to the Black Sea for the first time since 1992 and have worked with countries such as Turkey. In addition, we have entrusted the Canadian vessel with the responsibility for the group during a part of the exercise.

That enables us to achieve interoperability among vessels. We are also looking at communication activities and exercises that we are not able to conduct regularly with the NATO forces with which we are more used to working.

In the forces, whether in the air force or the navy, that is key in the training of our teams.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

My understanding is that the learning that took place through these joint exercises is one of the tangible results of Operation Reassurance. It also seems that the Baltic states in the region are reassured by NATO's presence.

Could you give us other examples of tangible results produced on the ground by this operation in eastern Europe?

[RAdm Gilles Couturier]

Trust is also being built between sailors, pilots and ground crews. The opportunity to work together and to discuss what in technical terms we call tactics, techniques and procedures, makes the groups more cohesive when the time for operations comes, whether for exercises or humanitarian purposes, anywhere in the world.

This key aspect is a direct benefit of Operation Reassurance.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Do you have anything to add?

[MGen Michael Hood]

No, I think the answers were quite thorough.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Very well.

Could you tell us how much Canada's participation in Operation Reassurance is estimated to cost?

[MGen Michael Hood]

We usually make an estimate before missions, but we identify the specific costs at the end of operations.