National Defence Committee on Oct. 21st, 2014

[MGen Michael Hood]

As an airman, in the vernacular, I'm familiar with the term. It would speak to flying close enough to someone that you would certainly give them cause to recognize your presence, so they're probably synonymous, sir.

Again, I think what's more important to note on this is that the aircraft they were approaching had no hostile indications. There were no radars locked on. There were no visible armaments. The airplanes were unarmed, so for the ship itself, the captain reported that at no time did he feel under threat. I think it was just a bit of a sensational moment that caught the eye of the press here.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

How far away?

[MGen Michael Hood]

I don't have the exact details, sir.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So any overflight is a “buzz” in air force parlance?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[RAdm Gilles Couturier, Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence]

The sailor side of me says that here are some measures the captain takes to identify a threat or non-threatening aircraft, and based on the flight pattern and everything else that the captain was seeing, there was no threat to the ship. If it is a buzz or an overflight, depending on where you come from, it makes a difference.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

General, you've told us that the Baltic air policing has been going on for a while—since 2004, I understand—and this is to provide air support and patrolling, particularly with Romania, Estonia, and Latvia, which don't have an air force. There have been regular rotations. Canada has not participated to date. Is Canada going to sign up for this now? Was this about additional flights, additional numbers of sorties? Or was this just about taking a place in the rotation?

[MGen Michael Hood]

There are two air policing missions in NATO: the Icelandic air policing and the Baltic air policing. Those are the two active air policing missions, and you've described them accurately. They're from NATO allies that don't have a fighter capability, and it has helped to promote the expression of their sovereignty.

We previously have done Icelandic air policing and in fact would likely contribute again to a policing mission in the future. As part of the NATO reassurance measures, though, NATO undertook to expand the size of the Baltic air policing mission, which essentially doubled it in size. A number of nations came in, and we're participating right now with Portugal in that. Within that expansion of the Baltic air policing mission, other NATO countries were invited, and Canada answered that call.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Mr. Harris, your time--

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Are you satisfied that there was reassurance given to those countries, that they did feel that reassurance?

[MGen Michael Hood]

Absolutely, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Norlock, please.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Through you, to the witnesses, thank you for attending today.

I'd like to go back to one of the questions that Mr. Chisu asked. It's one of my stealth and non-stealth questions. You answered most of the question with regard to the type of aircraft the Russians were using. It was a Bear-H bomber type aircraft, and then two MiG fighters. None of these would have been stealth-capable aircraft, would they?

[MGen Michael Hood]

If we talk about fourth and fifth generation, no, they're not stealth.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

The Russians do have those kinds of aircraft, I believe.

[MGen Michael Hood]

Stealth—

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

To our knowledge, do the Russians have that fourth-generation and fifth-generation type aircraft?

[MGen Michael Hood]

Fourth generation I'm aware of, but beyond that I don't have any independent knowledge.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I submit they wouldn't have.

Fourth-generation, then, would pose a significant challenge to NATO.

[MGen Michael Hood]

Well, it's akin to a modern fighter, as we're flying, so I think NATO is well versed and prepared to respond to that threat.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Great. Good news, because I think a lot of people want to make sure we go to the fight with the same kind of calibre weapons.

Mr. Harris was talking about our perception of the comfortableness Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and others have with the increased assistance we've been giving them. How close would Russian aircraft be coming to those three countries, as well as Iceland? Do they do frequent flyovers, etc., and sort of test us?

[MGen Michael Hood]

With respect to Baltic air policing, I was trying to highlight to you that to get from Russia proper to Kaliningrad, as an aviator, if I were flying a flight plan and I had overflight clearance of the Baltics, I could go in a straight line. But they don't do that because, certainly, I don't think the Baltics would necessarily give them overflight rights for military aircraft. Instead, they run astride the boundaries between the airspace, which many countries do when you choose not to have overflights. I'd simply like to characterize it that this is routine Russian activity. It's not seen as out of the ordinary.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

So it's not confrontational, in your view.

[MGen Michael Hood]

It has not been to date, sir.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you.

I guess the simple question is: do you feel our aircraft are providing a real deterrent against the Russians? When I say “our” I'm referring of course to our NATO allies. Do we appear to be dissuading them from any additional overtures, shall we say?