National Defence Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2013

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's good to see you, Doctor.

You've sent a bit of a chill through the room with respect to some of your comments. I want to read you something from the surgeon general's mental health strategy and ask you to comment on it:

Due to the relatively small number of suicides among CAF members each year, it is not possible to identify statistically significant changes from year to year. Rates must therefore be assessed over five-year periods. The United States Army’s suicide rate has doubled over the past decade and there has been considerable attention to the rate of suicide in the CAF. Suicide rates have, in contrast, remained stable in the CAF over the last 10 years. Suicide rates in the CAF are no higher, and are in fact lower, than those in the general population of the same age and sex. There is no increased rate of suicide among those who have deployed versus those who have not.

What do you make of that in terms of some of your comments?

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

Briefly, it speaks to itself.

Did anybody ask him where he got the data? Did anybody ask him, “What do you know about vets”?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Are you suggesting that the surgeon general is not looking, or not doing his job, or...? Do you think there's an attempt to hide this data, or that it's just not being collected? What are you suggesting, exactly?

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

No, I'm not saying that.

You know, if you ask a question, someone will give you an answer.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Well, when I go around my riding, I get a lot of questions and a lot of answers. I've got to dig through them myself and find out what's true and what's not.

Sitting there saying, “Ask a question, you'll get an answer”, we want the right answer. I just don't want an answer based on speculation. I'd like an answer based on what you think is going on.

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

I don't know what's going on.

You're politicians. You've expressed it.

I don't know. I want to know.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay.

I have no further questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson.

Mr. Boulerice, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Professor Moldofsky, thank you for being here this morning and for your excellent presentation, which was quite moving at times. You talked about the tragedies experienced by some of our veterans. You said that, because of lack of resources, it is difficult to take care of all those who have suffered and served their country. I am a bit disturbed by the conditions these people can sometimes find themselves in. There is no documentation or follow-up to enable us to make good decisions. If I understood you correctly, it is as if we are in the dark about mental health care for our veterans. Is that the case?

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

Yes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Hoping that I understood you correctly, I would like to know whether you think it is worth setting up screening clinics to determine, prior to deployment, which men and women are more prone to developing post-traumatic stress disorder. The idea would also be to do a routine follow-up once they are back.

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

This is what I submitted in 2004.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

But it has not been done.

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

I never got an answer.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

The current system leaves it up to the families to convince veterans to ask for help. If the veterans realize by themselves that they need help, they must overcome the shame they sometimes feel to go and knock on a doctor's door, but that can take months, even years.

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

Yes.

The major problem is that we have only you as advocates.

People with what are perceived to be mental illness problems, nobody pays attention to them, because they are mentally ill. If they have a heart problem, or if they have a stroke, or they have cancer, everybody can relate to that. But they can't relate to these people.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mental health issues are still taboo in our society and this is part of it.

In your view, what measures should the department, the federal government or the armed forces take to better support the families of our veterans who are suffering from mental health issues and lack of sleep?

[Dr. Harvey Moldofsky]

I think every major university across the country should have a special unit dealing with these issues, and it shouldn't be sitting in just one department. It has to be multidisciplinary.

In the Second World War, the most common problem in the U.S. military was pain, and they called it psychogenic pain. In the U.K., it was called fibrositis. Going back to the turn of the century, it was thought to be a heart problem, and it was called neurasthenia or something wrong with the heart.

Everybody has a label but no one has understanding. We have to have a multidisciplinary medical as well as psychiatric group to look at these people.

My plan is to meet with the chairman of the department of psychiatry in Toronto and demand that something be done. I haven't seen anything being done and it's the biggest department in the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Dr. Moldofsky, thank you very much.

Your time is up.

Thank you very much, Doctor, for appearing before us today, particularly as your battling laryngitis, which I hope is improving. We appreciate your attendance and what you have shared with us today.

Yes, Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move a motion that we go in camera to discuss our future business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

As we turn to committee business, the motion is to go in camera.

We'll suspend and go in camera as soon as the room is cleared.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]