National Defence Committee on April 15th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I call this meeting to order. It's slightly before 11 o'clock, and I see a quorum.

I see that Mr. Bezan has procured his chocolate milk.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It probably came out of some major defence budget and will be subject to examination by this committee at some future point.

I want to thank the minister for his appearance, as well as General Eyre, Deputy Minister Matthews and various and assorted others who are all familiar with appearing before this committee.

The reason for the meeting is that a defence policy update was issued last week. I know the minister wishes to speak to it, and I know the committee is interested in hearing what he has to say.

With that, I will turn it over to Minister Blair.

Welcome to the committee again. We look forward to what you have to say.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all members of the Standing Committee on National Defence. I'm grateful for the opportunity to come before you today and share with you some recent news that I believe will be very impactful.

Today, as you've already mentioned, Mr. Chair, I'm joined by my deputy minister, Bill Matthews; our chief of the defence staff, General Wayne Eyre; our chief financial officer, Cheri Crosby; our assistant deputy minister for policy, Peter Hammerschmidt; associate deputy minister for materiel, Nancy Tremblay; and the chief of our Communications Security Establishment, Caroline Xavier.

One week ago, the Prime Minister and I released Canada's new defence policy entitled “Our North, Strong and Free: A Renewed Vision for Canada's Defence”. We developed this policy in recognition of a world that has changed significantly since we launched our previous defence policy in 2017.

Across the globe, we've seen the return of strategic competition. Authoritarian states like Russia, China and beyond are all vying for power and influence, and they have demonstrated that they're not afraid to go against conventions or international law in these pursuits. The ripples are lapping at our shores here in Canada as well, and these threats, combined with the additional demands on CAF members because of climate change, have made it clear that we need to do more to protect our country and our citizens from these geopolitical flashpoints.

In response to these challenges, we've developed a comprehensive new plan that builds on “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, in which I know all of the members of this committee are well versed.

Through this plan, we will see our defence spending increase by an additional $8.1 billion over the next five years and $73 billion over the next 20 years. This will translate into 1.76% of GDP to be spent on defence by 2029-30, which is a significant step towards reaching our NATO commitment of 2%. By 2030, our government will have almost tripled defence spending from 2014-15.

We developed this policy based on extensive consultation with the Canadian public, with indigenous and Inuit partners, with industry, with parliamentarians, with defence experts and with our allies and our partners.

Based on what we have heard, we're committing to acquire an array of new and upgraded equipment to defend our country and our continent and to ensure we can continue supporting our allies and partners around the world. Many of these investments are critical to bolstering the CAF's presence in the north, which is warming at four times the global average as a result of climate change and is of increasing interest to both allies and adversaries alike.

Job number one is ensuring Canada's sovereignty is well protected, specifically in the Arctic and our northern regions. To get this done, we are making a series of focused investments in the Arctic and continental security. These will include $1.4 billion to acquire specialized maritime sensors in order to conduct ocean surveillance; $370 million for airborne early warning aircraft; $18.4 billion to acquire a new fleet of tactical helicopters; and $218 million for northern operational support hubs.

We will invest in multi-use infrastructure that can support CAF operations and will also contribute to the needs of our territorial governments, indigenous people and northern communities, so we can provide the CAF with the necessary equipment and northern communities with that valuable infrastructure. We will work with first nations, Métis and Inuit in true partnership and consultation.

We have also committed to building upon our $38.6-billion investment in NORAD modernization, which we announced in 2022. We are working with the U.S. to bolster our continental defence capabilities. In order to stay agile on the international stage, we're investing in capabilities. We need to be a strong NATO ally, and that will allow us to maintain a persistent presence in the Indo-Pacific.

We will be strong at home so that we can be strong around the world.

This will include $9.9 billion to improve the sustainment of our naval fleets. It's going to allow us to extend the life of our Halifax-class frigates while we work through the development and procurement of the new surface combatant fleet.

We are investing $9.4 billion to build more artillery ammunition here in Canada. We are investing both in industry—$300 million in this plan—and the certainty of long-term contracts through the $9.4 billion in order to provide those contracts. That's exactly what industry told us they required in order to respond to this urgent need. We are also exploring options to modernize our artillery weapons and to upgrade or replace our tank and LAV fleets.

We will continue expanding our presence and influence in non-traditional domains like space and cyber, including through a new CAF cyber command, and better integrate the CAF and the Communications Security Establishment into a unified team to support Canadian interests.

On top of these planned investments in equipment and infrastructure for our people, “Our North, Strong and Free” commits our institution to engage in the business of defence differently. We want to improve and deepen relationships with Canada's defence industry, because defence policy is also industrial policy. Ramping up our production is vital, because production is in fact deterrence, and it supports thousands of good jobs across the country.

We'll also undertake a review of our defence and national security policies every four years to make sure they are adequately meeting the moment.

None of this work is possible without our people, which is why we will further our efforts to build a safer, more supportive and more inclusive environment for our people and to bolster recruitment and retention. This policy supports our members through a $100-million investment to improve child care access for CAF members and families and almost $300 million to improve military housing—building new housing and rehabilitating existing structures.

To get more people into uniforms faster, we're going to streamline our recruitment processes and, to attract and retain talented people across Canada, we'll continue to do the critical work of cultural change to create a CAF that more accurately reflects a more inclusive Canada.

Finally, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, this policy is about building up the CAF and its capabilities so that it can meet new and emerging challenges. It will equip our military with the necessary tools needed to protect the Arctic, to defend Canada and to preserve the Canadian values that previous generations fought so hard for.

In response to these global threats—threats increasingly felt in here in Canada—we have said that we need to do more, and we will do more. These are challenging times, without a doubt, but we will meet the moment.

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair, for your indulgence.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister.

With that, we'll turn to our six-minute round. Mr. Bezan will lead off.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, I'm glad to see you at committee.

I must say that I'm disappointed with the defence policy update. There's no sense of urgency here.

We have war raging in Ukraine. We just witnessed Iran attack Israel last night. We have seen war throughout the Middle East and in the Red Sea, and we are witnessing a powder keg that's about to explode in the South China Sea and the strait of Taiwan, yet all the promises you're making and the explorations you're doing don't really happen until after the next election. In typical Liberal fashion, it's dithering, it's delay and it's kick the can down the road.

We're hearing stories about our troops using food banks and relying on food donations. You've said yourself that the recruitment and retention crisis has put the Canadian Armed Forces in “a death spiral”.You have said that we're short 6,700 military housing units right now. We have troops who are living in their cars. They're living rough. They're living in tent cities. We hear those stories all the time.

You can look at the media that cover the DPU. The titles are “The new Liberal defence policy's in no hurry to face dangerous global realities” and “Don't be fooled, Trudeau doesn't care about defence” in the National Post. In The Globe and Mail, it's, “With our outdated defence policy, Canada isn't prepared for today's threats”. It goes on and on, with this one in The Globe and Mail: “Canada's new defence policy commits to exploring, instead of committing”.

I think that when you look at what academics are saying, what military experts are saying and what the news is saying, it's that there's a lack of seriousness here in the defence policy update.

My question for you is that Minister Anand, in 2022, when she kicked off the DPU, said that there were going to be “aggressive options” to get Canada to 2% of GDP spending to meet the NATO commitment, and there's no commitment in this DPU. Why?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thanks very much, James, and for sharing some of those newspaper headlines.

I think you missed a couple. In particular, I'd point out the one in today's Globe and Mail, where they interviewed the chief of defence, who I think spoke very strongly about the value of this policy update, but rather than debate those things, I would just simply remind you that this investment is layered on the work we did with “Strong, Secure, Engaged”, which actually raised defence spending over an eight-year period by nearly 70%.

What this will result in by 2029 is that, from the very dark days of 2014, the last days in which you were a parliamentary secretary for defence, when defence spending—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

No. Let's—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Let me answer the question. That's when defence spending actually fell below 1% of the GDP. This will result, cumulatively, in almost a tripling of our defence spending.

What we've been able to demonstrate is strong. There's been an upward trajectory of defence spending since those days.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Let me say this, Minister. I'm very proud of our record of supporting our troops, but in the time we were in government, we never had troops lined up at food banks. We never had troops living rough. We never had our international allies say they couldn't depend on Canada. That's all on this Liberal government. That is not on the previous government.

Let's talk about housing. You have put $300 million in here. Only $8 million has been committed to housing at this point in time. There are zero dollars committed for this fiscal year. There are zero dollars committed in the DPU for the next fiscal year. You said we're 6,700 homes short for our troops. We know that over the last two years, National Defence has built only 38 homes. That isn't going to close the gap of 6,700 homes, nor will the $300 million get us there.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's a great question.

Let me share with you some of the things we're doing. You may have heard that our housing minister has already announced that not only are we investing money into the building of affordable rental housing for Canadians, which will include members of the armed forces, but we are also going to be leveraging the value of some of the property the Department of National Defence currently holds. We are already in very important discussions with municipalities and private industries to form public-private partnerships to get housing built rapidly. There are a number of really important initiatives.

I know we're all looking forward—I'm sure you are—to the budget that will be released on Tuesday, which will reveal a really urgent sense of getting housing built. There are real opportunities for members of the Canadian Armed Forces. We've consulted with them. I've been to those bases. We've heard them very clearly about what they need. We're responding to that not just with an investment of money but also with new approaches to getting it done.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I have one last minute here.

There is, in the DPU, a commitment to replace our aging Victoria-class submarines. It says it will be with conventional subs. The Prime Minister announced last week that nuclear subs were also an option. Can you explain the contradiction between the DPU and what the Prime Minister said?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

There's no contradiction there.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Are we going to go ahead with purchasing submarines that can go under ice to patrol our Arctic? We look at the proliferation of submarines around the world. Are we going to protect our coastlines from all three sides to ensure we are protected here and we know what's happening in our Arctic waters?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, we are going to—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

How much?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

What's that?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

How much is it going to cost?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's actually the work that's under way. We said we're exploring the work that needs to be done. We're working with the Royal Canadian Navy, Canadian Armed Forces and Department of National Defence to determine what their operational requirements are. As the Prime Minister indicated in his remarks last Monday, nothing's off the table. We're going to listen to them.

We're also working with our allies. We'll then explore what the best way to respond to that is. The Prime Minister has been very clear, and the document makes clear that we're going to do it because Canada's national defence requires it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Ms. Lambropoulos, go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today to answer some of our questions.

Minister, the new defence policy update reflected a lot of what we've worked on in this committee. That was something I was really happy about. Over the last couple of years we've dealt with some really important issues. Those are really well reflected in the DPU. The title of this update indicates a clear focus on Canada's Arctic and northern regions, which are becoming more and more accessible as a result of global warming.

Last spring our committee studied Arctic sovereignty and security. We recommended infrastructure upgrades and an enhanced presence of the armed forces in the north. You touched on those things a little bit in your opening remarks. I'm wondering if you can give us some more specific details about the infrastructure investments and upgrades that will be included in this policy.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Emmanuella.

First of all, I would hope that all of the stakeholders we consulted with will see their hard work and their advice reflected in this document. That includes, of course, parliamentarians and the important work here of the defence committee. In many respects, this is also an industrial policy, because we listened to and heard our military industries on what they require—the certainty and clarity over what Canada was going to do and what money would be available to do it. It's also, I hope, strongly reflective of the consultation we have done with the northern premiers, with Inuit and indigenous communities and with northern communities.

One thing that I hope is very clear in this document is that we recognize that the world has changed, but it's our first responsibility as the Canadian Armed Forces. This is Canada's Department of National Defence. I'm the Minister of National Defence for this country. Recognizing our responsibility to defend our own country and our own continent will make us a stronger partner to our NATO allies. It will make us more effective in the work we need to do in the Indo-Pacific. It will also, I think, provide assurances to all our NATO partners, but in particular the United States, that Canada is prepared to step up and do what is required.

One thing that I think many people in southern Canada sometimes think, when they think about protecting northern sovereignty, is that we occasionally have a plane fly over, or perhaps when the ice is out a boat goes by. When we've gone to northern communities and listened to them, they've said, no, it's about infrastructure. It's about airports. It's about highways. It's about fibre optic communications. It's about water treatment plants and power plants. It's about medical facilities.

We know that we have to build five different northern support hubs so that we can fly our new fighter jets, multi-mission aircraft, search and rescue aircraft and helicopters into that region. We know that we'll have to persistently deploy members of the Canadian Armed Forces and we'll have to train in the north. There's a real opportunity in the infrastructure that this will require for it to be multi-use. In my conversations with the northern premiers and with Inuit and indigenous communities, they are very much engaged with us in the importance of building infrastructure. First of all, they'll be very much involved in its construction but also in its subsequent use, because that will support their communities. If a runway can be used to land a fighter jet or transport plane, it can also be used for medical evacuation and search and rescue aircraft.

This is what we mean by multi-use. I think it's the mutual benefits. It's not just an investment in defence. It's an investment in Canadians, particularly in our northern communities.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you so much. I am happy to hear that you will be consulting and that the consultations will definitely play a role going forward in determining what will be taking place, especially with northern and indigenous communities.

You've spoken a little bit about what role they can play. Can you talk to us about the ways in which we'll be working in partnership with them more specifically, based on what you've already heard from them?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

First of all, let me acknowledge one of our most important military presences in the north—the Canadian Rangers. Many of them are indigenous, and all of them are from northern communities. They're an important asset to our country's national defence. We've listened very clearly to how we can support them better in the important work they do on all our behalf. I've also met a number of times with the Assembly of First Nations and with the ITK, but additionally with individual Inuit communities and groups across the north. I've also relied on the northern premiers. The territorial premiers have been excellent partners in this. We are engaging with them and their governments quite extensively in this work. I think there is common cause and an understanding that we need to work together.

One thing that I have undertaken with the Inuit leadership and the indigenous leadership, as well as the northern communities and the northern premiers, is that there will be nothing about them without them. It's a very simple thing. We need their understanding of their environment. We learn from them. We'll be more effective in national defence in the High Arctic if we incorporate indigenous learning and indigenous language and if we work in partnership. We've made it very clear that this is our commitment. They have also made it equally clear to us that, first of all, this is their expectation, and also that they have a willingness to be good partners.

May I also say that across the north, there are other relationships that are also important. I've reached out to the Danish government, because the Inuit in Greenland are also part of this discussion as part of our NATO commitments.

We're making sure that we engage appropriately with our allies and with Canadians, particularly those who are in the north. That's our commitment and we'll continue to do so.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.