Evidence of meeting #24 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nru.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hugh MacDiarmid  President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Bill Pilkington  Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Michael Binder  President, Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission
Peter Elder  Director General, Directorate of Nuclear Cycle and Facilities Regulation, Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Good afternoon, everyone.

We're here today to continue our study, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), of the Atomic Energy of Canada Limited facility at Chalk River and the status of the production of medical isotopes.

We have two groups of witnesses today. The first will go from 3:30 to about 4:20. We'll shorten the period. The second will go from 4:20 to 5:15. That will leave 15 minutes for us to discuss committee business, because we have to know who we want to invite or what business we want to deal with Tuesday and Thursday of next week and beyond that. If everyone can be thinking about that so we can do that in 15 minutes and at least get next Tuesday's witnesses finalized, that would be very helpful.

We'll get right to it. From Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, we have with us today Hugh MacDiarmid, president and chief executive officer, and with him is Bill Pilkington, senior vice-president and chief nuclear officer.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for coming today. You know well what we're here to discuss today. If you have a presentation of up to ten minutes, go ahead and make the presentation.

3:30 p.m.

Hugh MacDiarmid President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to introduce to you Mr. Bill Pilkington, Chief Nuclear Officer for AECL.

Bill will be taking us through a presentation regarding the NRU at Chalk River and the manner in which AECL intends to identify and then implement a solution for the safe return to service of that reactor.

Since our time is limited, let me just say that AECL and its people will approach the current situation at Chalk River with attention to several principles that will guide our actions.

First and foremost, we will never operate an unsafe reactor. This is our highest commitment to our employees, our communities, and all Canadians.

Second, we view the production of medical isotopes as part of our core mission for Canada, and indeed for the world. As such, we have a duty to resume production as soon as it is safe and practical to do so. We will return the NRU to service as soon as possible, with lasting repairs and every assurance of safe operation. In returning the reactor to service, we will draw on all available expertise, both internal and external, so that we apply the best minds to this issue. We will work seven days a week, 24 hours a day, where practical, until we finish the job. A professional project management approach will, as always, guide our actions.

We will act in lockstep with the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, our regulator, with which we continue to have an extremely constructive relationship.

Finally, we will conduct ourselves with the utmost transparency before Canadians, the medical community, our shareholder, and indeed, as requested, this committee and Parliament. Ladies and gentlemen, to that last point, let me extend an invitation to members of the committee to visit Chalk River to see for yourselves the work that is under way.

Thank you, and I would like to now turn it over to Mr. Pilkington.

3:30 p.m.

Bill Pilkington Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Mr. Chairman, NRU shut down automatically on May 14 due to a loss of off-site power. A decision was made not to restart due to evidence of a heavy-water leak. The small heavy-water leak, which was the cause of the extended shutdown, continues at about four to five kilograms an hour.

I refer you to slide two in the material you were given, which shows the general layout of the NRU reactor and how we manage the heavy-water leakage. All of the heavy water from the leak is being collected and stored in specially designed drums. About 20% of the heavy water evaporates and results in a monitored airborne release from the Chalk River site. As a result of the leak, tritium emissions are just above the specified action level at which AECL reports to the CNSC and to our local stakeholders and posts to the AECL website. However, these emissions are at approximately one one-thousandth of the regulatory limit.

The leak location was identified four days after shutdown, using remote camera inspection due to the extreme difficulty in accessing the location from the top of the reactor, nine metres above.

I refer you to slide three, which shows the leak location, nine metres below the access points at the top of the reactor, and shows a detailed view of the configuration of the leak location. The leak was caused by corrosion starting on the outside wall of the vessel at the base. Specifically, nitric acid formed from radiation effects on the nitrogen in air and water at the base of the vessel. Full video inspection of the base of the reactor vessel indicates one other area similar to the leak location and half a dozen other areas of concern.

I refer you to slide four, which shows the leak location on the circumference of the vessel and the five additional black dots indicating the other areas of concern. Preliminary assessment of the extent of the corrosion and available nuclear repair technologies confirms there is no immediate or simple solution. This judgment is reflected in our recent guidance of at least a three-month outage.

Slide four has three photos: number one, when the vessel was new; number two, representing the general condition at the base of the vessel; and number three, showing an area of concern. Inspection and repair activities are complex due to limited access to the leak and corrosion location and by the surface condition on the vessel walls.

We are currently removing the fuel from the reactor. We will then drain the heavy water and do non-destructive examination on the inside wall at the base of the vessel. We will select the most appropriate cleaning and repair technique, and all work must be done remotely, due to access from the top of the reactor and high radiation fields. Only when we know the extent of repair and the technique can we produce a detailed plan and schedule for the work.

In parallel with the repair and inspection, we will complete an assessment to confirm that the vessel is fit for service. We are keeping the CNSC inspectors directly involved at the Chalk River site and officials in Ottawa fully informed of all our activities. Our repairs will be sound and our fitness for service assessments will be complete and accurate in order to facilitate a CNSC decision that it is safe for the NRU reactor to return to service.

AECL is fully committed to transparency with you, the CNSC, and our stakeholders. Returning the NRU to safe, reliable operation to support medical isotope production is our primary objective.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your concise report to us to start off.

We'll go now to questioning, starting the seven-minute round with Mr. Regan, from the official opposition.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MacDiarmid and Mr. Pilkington, thank you very much for coming today. It's nice to see you again.

It sounds like perhaps you're close to finishing the investigations. We keep hearing from the minister that when the investigations are completed, we'll be able to assess how long it might be out. I'm trying to assess whether, for example, the three months are really the minimum, or whether in fact it will be longer than that.

Canadian patients who are looking for diagnoses are obviously anxious to know.

3:35 p.m.

Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Bill Pilkington

We still have more work to do to be able to complete that assessment. We have two challenges that have to be met. One challenge is to get the proper inspection equipment to the location inside the vessel where the leak and corrosion exist. We're producing special tooling to be able to deliver inspection equipment to that location, and we need to complete that inspection. We will not be able to complete all of that inspection until we have the fuel out of the reactor, and that will be at least two more weeks. The other thing is that with some inspection data we have to determine the appropriate repair technique. Once we have those two tasks done then we can put together a plan for repair and return to service.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

When do you expect the investigations to be completed?

3:35 p.m.

Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Bill Pilkington

It's hard to put a fixed date on that, but I would say that it's probably more than a week away. It's probably at least two weeks away at this point.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

You're defuelling. You're moving the fuel rods. Will you have to empty the reactor vessel, or have you already had to do that?

3:35 p.m.

Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Bill Pilkington

The sequence is that we need to take the fuel out first and then that allows us to drain the heavy water from the vessel.

Excuse me, but in my last answer, when I suggested two weeks, we may have to add that two weeks to the end of the time that we defuel the reactor, and that's a three-to-four-week exercise, which started a week ago.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Will you have to empty the reactor vessel of heavy water?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Bill Pilkington

At this point we believe we will. We're looking at a number of repair strategies, but given the nature of the corrosion, we believe at this point we will have to complete the defuelling and drain the vessel.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

I've heard that if you have to drain the vessel then we're talking about a lot more than three months. Have I heard wrong?

3:40 p.m.

Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Bill Pilkington

Again, I cannot give you a timeline until we have the plan.

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

I think it would be fair to say that three months is probably, judgmentally, looking optimistic today, but we're very reluctant to give any further guidance until we have--

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

I guess what I've heard is that if you have to drain the vessel it's a lot longer than three months to start off with. I'm concerned about that, and obviously Canadians will be concerned.

You made it very clear why it's difficult for you to give an exact timeline, but if the minimum you're stating is well understated, that's a concern as well, and I'm trying to gauge that, as you can understand.

Let me go on. These are questions about finding the isotopes that Canada and the world needs.

When the reactor was shut down in 2007, can you tell us how much of the shortfall was made up by other countries?

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

I cannot give you a precise number on that. This was in fact before either Bill or I were in our current responsibilities, so I cannot give you any number with precision at that point in time.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

I have some questions on the situation with the Petten reactor in the Netherlands. Today the minister announced—and we heard it in committee the other day—that the Dutch have indicated they could increase their production of isotopes by 50%. As I understand it, the NRU at Chalk River has been producing approximately 40% of the world's isotopes. The Petten reactor has produced about 30%. If they increase by 50%, that would be 15% to replace the 40% that's gone, roughly.

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

Put it this way: The increase that they're going to be able to achieve, whatever that level will be, is not going to replace the production of the NRU.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

My understanding is that the Petten reactor is supposed to begin a six-month shutdown in January, and it has licensing or regulatory limits on ramping up its operations. Can you tell me what those limits mean here? If it has those limits, how is it able to ramp up, and how quickly can it ramp up?

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

Frankly, we have been focusing 100% of our attention on fixing our own reactor. We know there are a number of officials who have been actively working with the global supply community. We're only very tangentially aware of that. We certainly do know there is a shorter outage of the Petten reactor that's planned, in fact, for this coming summer, in the next month or two. That will probably exacerbate the supply issues in the very near term.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

The estimate is that Petten is shutting down for the month of July--

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

Yes, a four-week outage.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

--and that another reactor was shutting down this summer, another major reactor perhaps. I forget whether it was in Belgium or France or where it was. These are all very old reactors that we can see more problems with.

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited

Hugh MacDiarmid

All of which simply points to the urgency of us getting to our job and returning the reactor to service as quickly as we can.