Natural Resources Committee on Aug. 21st, 2009

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I shouldn't have asked the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

--so we'll go now to Mr. Julian, who is filling in for the New Democrats.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Julian. It's great to see you here.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being here today, Mr. Dupont.

A little earlier, you said, in response to questions from Ms. Brunelle, that no effort would be spared to restart the reactor. Could you tell the committee how much money the department has invested to ensure it is restarted as soon as possible?

[Serge Dupont]

The costs will quite obviously be determined by Atomic Energy of Canada in the course of this project. Atomic Energy of Canada is a Crown corporation that the government has funded and continues to fund. The government of course will bear its responsibility for the funding of those operations in the context of its overall financial relationship with Atomic Energy of Canada.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Does that mean you haven't yet received a request from Atomic Energy of Canada for funding to restart the reactor as soon as possible?

[Serge Dupont]

There hasn't yet been a formal request, but very clear instructions have been given for the task to be completed. We know perfectly well that there will be costs. We haven't yet been sent a formal request, but we're expecting it. To date, the Government of Canada has discharged its responsibility with respect to the financial needs of Atomic Energy of Canada and will continue to do so.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

You haven't yet received a request, but if a request is made, will the department consider helping AECL?

[Serge Dupont]

If the request is made, we'll follow the usual procedure in the context of our relations with Atomic Energy of Canada, which is a Crown corporation.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you.

I have a follow-up question, then, because this is not a small issue, as you can imagine; this is a crisis, particularly for those who are having to wait for a diagnosis and wait for treatment. When you have cancer, every day has profound implications for the health of the individual and for the family as well.

I'm curious. If Atomic Energy of Canada Limited has not yet provided any figures for the ministry to provide support so we can get the reactor up and running, I'm interested in knowing what the costs of servicing and maintenance were for the NRU in the past year and what resources were available for that reactor five years ago and 10 years ago. Do you have those figures available?

[Serge Dupont]

I would have them, and I would be happy to provide the committee with a full chapter and verse on the funding that has been provided to Atomic Energy of Canada, including to Chalk River Laboratories, in the past.

Those amounts, at the level of the Government of Canada, were not disaggregated to the level of maintenance for the NRU. That would have been within the financial accounting of Atomic Energy of Canada.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes, but those figures are available to you. I've seen them.

[Serge Dupont]

I'm sure they would be, from Atomic Energy of Canada.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

As part of the reporting structure.

[Serge Dupont]

Right, I suspect they would be, but the reporting structure would be about running the Chalk River Laboratories, which is a broader operation than simply the NRU. There are all kinds of other facilities there, and the government would, on an annual basis, have provided an appropriation--and has provided an appropriation--to Atomic Energy of Canada to run Chalk River Laboratories, and in various cases it has also received supplementary moneys to provide for the update and the upkeep of the facilities.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

But you have those figures available. Can you make them available--

[Serge Dupont]

We, as the Government of Canada, can make available the numbers for Chalk River. But the further disaggregation would have to come forward from AECL.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Let's move on to the costs to the health care system and to provincial governments. We've had estimates of $10 million from Quebec, much more than that from Ontario and from other provinces impacted as well. These are all additional costs that weigh on the health care system because of the cost of supplying isotopes.

Within the ministry, is there a department or section that is tracking those additional health care costs?

[Serge Dupont]

Mr. Chair, that would be the principal responsibility of Health Canada. Health Canada has been conducting the interface here with the provincial ministries of health, with the health community. We at NRCan have been focused on the supply side of the equation. We obviously talk to Health Canada and we have those kinds of discussions, and we appreciate that the fragile situation globally is entailing higher costs, but you would need to address the question to Health Canada in terms of jurisdiction by jurisdiction, or actual higher costs.

It is also not a trivial matter estimating that, because for example, even prior to the NRU shutdown, there were some price increases announced by some of the suppliers of technetium-99. So there were already some market developments prior to the shutdown of the NRU, and one would have to disaggregate what is truly the cause of the NRU shutdown versus what may be other market factors in play.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Dupont, are you saying then that any tracking that's taking place of the additional costs to the health care system of not having the production online is taking place separately from the ministry, and the ministry's unaware of those costs?

[Serge Dupont]

No, I'm not saying we're unaware of those costs. We're aware of the costs generally. We're aware there are higher costs. We've been working closely with Health Canada on this, and Health Canada is working with the provincial ministries.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

But wouldn't they be making those figures available to the ministry? I don't understand this. You've got Health Canada doing one thing and the Minister of Natural Resources doing another.

[Serge Dupont]

Our principal focus is to try to bring forth the best kind of supply situation to the market. Whether the additional costs are x or y, to us the job is the same.

Health Canada has the relationships with the provinces. It is within the provincial domain to assume the costs in the health care system. Health Canada has those relationships, and to the extent that there has been some communication on the costs to the provinces, then Health Canada may be better able to answer the question than I am on the basis of my assessment of the supply situation in the marketplace.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

We go now to Mr. Shory for up to seven minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for coming out this afternoon.

I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Anderson.

I have one quick question. Before that, I'm of the view that, if not all, most of us agree to two things. One is that Canada has been the world leader in isotope supplies, and the second is that the shortage of isotopes is a serious concern to all of us.

Coming back to my question, while our government explores the options, I have noticed one thing: that there are some concerns about the government examining the options of the private sector participating in the commercial operation of AECL. My question is, if the commercial operation of AECL is participated in by the private sector, regulated and monitored by CNSC, as it is today, would it be a compromise of the safety, security, and well-being of Canadians in any manner whatsoever?

[Serge Dupont]

Clearly, the short and long answer is no. If one looks, for example, at a situation in the power sector in Ontario right now, there is a private sector firm called Bruce Power that operates nuclear reactors in Ontario, under the regulation of the CNSC. It does so with the same safety standards as OPG, and Hydro-Québec and NB Power. So the short and long answer is no.